
Considering that Holy Joe is now openly campaigning with Republicans (notably GOP House candidate Rob Simmons, with whom he shares Rick Santorum's pollster) and spitting in the face of the DCCC's efforts (we presume) to take the House in November, and Tony Blankley was on Hardball last night openly speculating that Lieberman might caucus with the GOP if he wins, isn't it time to start seriously stripping him of his committee assignments?
It's rather difficult right now to figure out just what, exactly, is going on. According to the Journal-Inquirer:
The Hill reported that Lieberman had rankled his colleagues by suggesting that those who supported bringing troops home from Iraq by a deadline would bolster terrorists' planning attacks against the U.S. and its allies and by intimating that the Democratic Party was out of the political mainstream.
The newspaper, quoting unnamed senior aides to the unidentified senators, said they suggested Lieberman could be stripped of his seniority in the Democratic caucus should he defeat Lamont in the general election.
Lieberman told the Associated Press the day after The Hill's story was published that he had spoken with Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid and that Reid had assured him he would retain his positions within the party caucus should he win in November.
Reid had called him after the primary, Lieberman said, and pledged that if he got re-elected "nothing is going to change."
Nevertheless, Reid's spokesman, Jim Manley, subsequently told the news service that "those types of decisions" wouldn't be made until after the general election.
Lieberman's campaign spokesman, Dan Gerstein, insisted today that Reid had "left no doubt" in Lieberman's mind "that his seniority was not going to be at risk."
"This is a lot of hyperactive staffers who are trying to cater to the bloggers," he said, referring to the Internet writers who generally have supported Lamont over Lieberman.
Gerstein added that the ruckus was "just typical partisan politics" and that people Lieberman had met while campaigning were "not really interested."
But he also suggested that stripping Lieberman of his seniority would be "one of the dumbest things the Democratic caucus could do.
"The point is, the one thing they can't take away from Joe is his experience and his influence, and that's not just based on committee assignments, but on his credibility and ability to work across party lines to get things done for the state," he said.
Earlier in the year, Pach interviewed Chuck Schumer of the Incumbency Protection Racket DSCC who made it clear that what really mattered was Lieberman's willingness to vote for Harry Reid as Senate leader. Is that the game we're playing here? Because Ned Lamont would, of course, vote for Harry Reid; is it all about making sure that Reid's got a lock on that Connecticut vote?
Stripping Lieberman of his seniority would be a serious blow, one that could limit the damage he can and will do to the three much-needed House seats. It also has the potential to knock Joe out of the race. Is it worth the cost of three House seats and the risk that Joe might switch parties to "play it safe?" That's an awfully high price for -- well, for what, exactly?
And might I remind anyone who has troubled themselves to forget -- Lieberman has already punk'd Reid once before when he promised he wouldn't leave the party. Does he really believe Joe won't plant one in his back to help his GOP buddies if it suits his purposes to do so?
Because I really just do not find that much of a stretch.
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NED!
Fitz!
And give ‘em hell, Jane!
What the hell, indeed! What are you thinking, Harry? Get a grip and boot the guy.
Harry,
If the Democrats won’t stand up to a threat from Joe Lieberman, what makes us think they will stand up to the “terrorists”?
-GSD
OT.
Listen to this “analyst” on Fox News. It has all of the Neo-con spin points. They are conditioning the American people. Iran=Hitler’s Germany.
Also, listen to the “Iranian people will rise-up meme”.
Wolrd War III Propaganda Blitz
Great Title.
Just left a voicemail in Harry’s Vegas office.
This is really weak, it does nothing to instill confidence in the party. It shows no leadership.
EPU’d after 3 crashes here at home
clearly agitated, clare is given a timeout and passes the time . . .
DITHERING SCHUMER CAN’T COPE
DIDACTIC SLOGANEERING CASH CULT
DULL, SHITTY, COSTLY, CAMPAIGNS
DO SEND CONSULTANTS CASH
DID SCHUMER CRATER CONNECTICUT ?
DODDERING SENATORS CLAIM CERTAINTY
DSSC SPEWS Complete CRAP
DEMAND SCHUMER CEDE CHAIR
What Harry’s thinking is that A*PAC’s pipeline into Democratic HQ is working just fine, thank you very much.
If Harry doesn’t strip Joe, perhaps we should strip Harry. Of jobs folks, not clothes. There’s no way I could handle the latter.
Glorfindel: UPCHUCK Schumer! How absolutely fitting!
Full of sound and fury ..signifying nothing.
My thoughts lately on Harry Reid, that is. I fell for it and had hope when he did the closed session bit to force movement on the Iraq intelligence report. That was last November. What chance is there that Repubs will let that happen before the election?
I have heard all the excuses - some valid - about Harry being in the minority party, so there is not much the Dems can do. Well, this is an exception. Stipping Leiberman of his committee seniority is totally within Harry’s power.
This whole gutlessness by Harry, and the fence-sitting DLC on JoeMentum makes me sick. What on earth will it take to get the Dems to listen? And yes, I have called my elected representatives and sent emails (mostly to Kohl, love Fiengold). I’ll be a warm body for the Dem machine in October, but this is driving me nuts!
“This is a lot of hyperactive staffers who are trying to cater to the bloggers,” he said, referring to the Internet writers who generally have supported Lamont over Lieberman.
They are so trying to make ‘bloggers’ toxic. He is forgetting that the Democratic voters of Connecticut generally have also supported Lamont over Lieberman.
Right on target, Jane!
OT– Dana Milbank on msnbc re Allen today.
This story is not going away…
Harry. It’s called Leadership. Leader. Lead. Please.
Everyone is watching and waiting for each and every one of you to take the necessary steps to unify this party. Lead.
Reid’s a survivor. He survived a general election eight years ago by 800 votes, if memory serves. So he knows the costs of the given gesture. What, then, would it cost, at this time, to strip Joe, or threaten to strip Joe, of his assignments and seniority? And whom would it cost? For example, would it ONLY cost Harry Reid, and would it only cost him his leadership, or would there be other costs involved–to Reid as to other Democrats? Just asking…..
Reid has a point, albeit wishy-washy, in that the new dem congress should make the decision after the elections. But really it’s just vacating the opportunity to lead. Now.
There is no dem leadership. None that we haven’t seen for the last five years. They are still afraid of their own shadows, except for Feingold. Otherwise it’s nine-to-five reach-arounds in the hallowed halls.
What they’re doing (not doing) is the dem equivalent of W’s boys on Katrina. They don’t care. Didn’t when it happened. Don’t now.
The void is roaring.
Listen - I know you all are going into moderation right and left, and I’m freeing you as soon as I can, and I have Christy looking into it…hopefully, we’ll figure it out soon!
Hang in there!
One: Dan Gerstein is a lying sack of shit. I believe nothing that comes from him in any form.
Two: Lieberman is a lying sack of shit. I believe nothing that comes from him in any form.
Three: Bloggers are NOT lying sacks of shit. People (FDL and Atrios) have been calling this right from the get-go and they continue to be ignored.
Lieberman will probably not switch parties, but he will caucus with the Reptilians and he will finally switch his tack on Choice and stab NARAL in the back.
It’s time for Reid to put an end to this shit NOW! This can’t go on any longer. I’m sure that the Democrats are split between the old way (losing elections, losing seats and getting no respect) and the new way. The new way has the old men scared and they can’t bring themselves to change.
Netroots is just a tool, but the new force in politics are people and the people have to first kick out the Democrats and then kick out the Reptilians. It’s sad it has to be this way, but so be it.
Git yer gloves on, kiddies. It’s time to rumble…
They’re not going to touch his committee assignments until they see who they’ve got to work with after November. They’re hedging their bets.
Reid is shadow boxing. So much for his tough-guy creds.
Today’s the day Mt. Vesuvius erupted (79 AD) and the Visigoths sacked Rome (410) . . . I think the chances of explosions from Harry Reid’s office are going up, resulting in the sacking of a former Democrat.
Not there yet, but the chances are going up. Minor earthquakes have been felt, puffs of steam have been seen venting . . . yep, the chances are going up.
Tony Blankley on Hardball, emphasis added:
Jane - This post could not be more appropriate or timely. Thank you!
I have called Reid several times before - but before this day is through I will call each of his offices across the country and get this message through.
If everyone else at FDL does the same, we will send a message.
If you only do one thing this year for the Democratic party, please let this be it. If you are hesitant, please read Jane’s post again.
It isn’t clear what is motivating Reid to hold out for Lieberman, but he has GOT to be on the fence at this point given the mounting evidence of what Joe is doing to the Democratic party.
Our collective voices could be the push that he needs to strip Joe of his committee seats.
Please, I implore you, give Harry hell about this!
I can understand Reid being worried that if he spanks Lieberman too hard and Lieberman wins, he will turn on Reid and the party. Maybe it’s a risk worth taking, but I can forgive Reid for being worried about it. Lieberman is such a santimonious and unforgiving person.
What I am not impressed by is the faint support for the party’s nominee. Reid should go make an appearance for Ned, along with the rest of that Senate crowd who are hanging back to see whether Ned wins before becoming his best new friend.
If JL defeats Lamont, but his run causes the defeat of the 3 Dems, then I agree with punishment for such disloyalty. That decision is easy to make, after the election.
The problem we face before the election is different. What would the effect on the election be of punishing Joe now? Jane suggests this would help the 3-Dems and possibly knock out JL. There seems to be little dissent from this view. But I don’t see the logic. Call me obtuse.
Heard Bob Geiger yesterday. He covers the Senate for Democrats.com and Huffington Post.
He said that Reid’s hands were tied and that the Senate in general votes for committee memebers.
Gerstein added that … people Lieberman had met while campaigning were “not really interested.”
Ah. First statement of truth out of that mouth in years.
Lieberman has already redefined himself out of the Democratic Party. The next time the Democrats caucus together, even before the election that replaces him with Lamont, they’re all going to be asking themselves, “What’s he doing here?”
How can the Democrats have a meaningful caucus that includes someone who has already identified himself as something other, someone who is working as hard as he can, with his Republican supporters, to defeat the Democratic candidate and to defeat Democratic opposition to the Republican administration? What sort of discussion can take place with him in the room?
So either you toss him out of the Democratic Caucus or you create a new one, which does the real working and thinking. Maybe you call it the Democratic Caucus Minus Whiners, I don’t know. But if they have serious work to do before the election, they can’t do it with Lieberman there.
Look, Harry– Lieberlies is on the Armed Services Cmte, the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Cmte, Environment & Public Works Cmte, the Small Business Cmte.
Just where has he averted disaster? Voting and supporting endlessly the Iraq War and anything else the neocons propose? By hurtling thru cmte the infamous Michael Brown to head up one of the biggest domestic governmental failures with Katrina? I could go on and on and on.
Hell’s bells man– strip him now!
Let’s connect some dots, shall we?
Is it just an accident that Schmuck Chumer’s running the DSCC? Or is it his access to Wall $treet con$tituent$? Bloggers are swell for firing up the base (if that’s what the Dempros even want), but it’s the big donor$ who pay the bills and call the shots. And Joey’s their guy, now more than ever.
Harry’s a good soldier. He’s following orders from higher authority, because that’s what good soldiers do. What else would we expect? (Yeah, I know, he was so nice at YKos and stuff. But that was then, and this is now.)
If you want somebody who’s his own man, try Howard Dean or John Edwards or Russ Feingold or Teddy Kennedy. They aren’t taking orders from the War Party High Command.
portia.vz says:
August 24th, 2006 at 7:44 am *
Joe is LESS likely to caucus with the Dems if re-elected. The only way he can deliver for Connecticut is if the Republicans reamin in the majority and he is one of them.
And that is what his campaign is trying to ensure. What can he get out of being in the minority after this?
Schumer et al better wake the hell up. BTW, I got another begging letter from the DSCC yesterday. I’m not giving any money until I see that Ned is supported enthusiastically by Schumer et al. And I don’t mean a token $5000.00 check. Do they want power or do they want incumbency? Pick one.
Good point from the earlier thread - BTW am I the only one having loooooooooooong waits here?
windje
email DSCC
Email Senator Reid
If you have a login at Give ‘Em Hell Harry website please comment on this:
http://www.giveemhellharry.com.....nrubin/BhK
I’m guessing that Reid needs Lieberman for a crucial legislative vote that is about to come up before the election. Could it be the Specter NSA bill? Whatever it is, the margin of error for it is so slim that he can’t afford ot lose Joe.
After the election, it’s curtains for Joe. Actually, I’m pretty convinced now that Joe can not win this thing.
IIRC at YKos Give ‘em Hell Harry was quoted as saying “actions have consequences.” Oh really? I say Prove It!
So lets think this thing through. Come the election, who will be working for Joe to GOTV, canvass, call, etc? He barely had the dems to do any of it last go round. He also had trouble hiring kids to do it for him.
Will he use repugs? Will they be happy to? Then what?
I don’t see J-Lie staying with the dems because they have nothing to offer to help him get elected. Once he’s jumped to accepting repug help, he will owe them big time.
Or am I missing something here?
Not quite OT, I was walking up Sixth Ave this morning and spotted Bob Kerrey having breakfast. I was tempted to barge in and harangue him for stumping for the CFL instead of the D candidate in Connecticut, but I balked, him being a trained killer and all.
“is it all about making sure that Reid’s got a lock on that Connecticut vote?”
Yes. Reid is almost paranoid about the CT vote and has been telegraphing that concern ever since Yearly Kos. Trouble is he didn’t really believe that Ned would show so strong and now he is boxed in. Seems to me that if he really wanted to ensure the CT vote he would actively support Lamont.
EPU’d from last thread:
It seems the Democrats are too much concerned that Joe Lieberman’s potential vote in the Senate might be the difference between them being the majority party or not.
First there is the likelyness that Ned Lamont will winn in Connecticut, and that would make the Lieberman issue mute.
However, should Lieberman win in November, there still are the possibilities that the Democrats win a majority without Lieberman’s vote or Democrats being in the minority with Lieberman’s vote. In either case, Lieberman would be meaningless. So just playing the statistics game, Lieberman will either not be a part of the next Senate or his vote might not mean much.
I wonder if there are people in the Democratic party who assess those risks. The smart money is no longer on Lieberman.
My personal favorite:
DEMAND SCHUMER CEDE CHAIR
This is another good spotlight candidate for the pundit class.
I guess I don’t fully agree but instead align my position closer to that taken by Alabama (15) in the comments. Certainly, if Lamont wins in November (woo hoo!) he will caucus with the Democrats. Should Lieberman win (boo hiss) the last thing that the Democratic leadership wants to have happen is for Lieberman to caucus with the Republicans. Imagine if the Senate is split 50/50 by Lieberman agreeing to caucus with the Republicans and then Cheney is the tie-breaker. Should we win the Senate by more than one then there may be an opportunity to strip Lieberman of his seniority but otherwise it may not make sense.
The LIEberman issue can be reframed as Pascal’s square
Lieberman loses - Whether he’s on or off committee, makes no difference
Lieberman wins - If he stays with the dems do i trust him
If he goes to the repubs, query - are there specific rules on seniority or are they party specific and arbitrary?
If he wins and joins the administration, you’ve got a junior repub. senator from ct
The key is to just beat him at the polls - lets not get lost in a side issue.
alabama @
13
alabama, Joe’s using his name recognition, bought and paid for by Al Gore, to campaign with Republican Congressional Candidates. The facade of his independent campaign is over. Joe’s a Republican.
There are tremendous costs if Harry doesn’t do something. We’ve given Harry a pass up until this. Joe crossed the line.
This is symptomatic of the problem with the Dem leadership - no balls. If Lieberman (by some miracle) actually wins in November, I don’t think there’s the slightest question left as to who he will caucus with.
Dammit Harry, throw the bastard out and let’s end this thing.
BitNOLA, your The void is roaring is impeccable — and, therefore, the mirror-opposite of its subject matter.
I know some folks around here see certain qualities in Harry Reid (his boxing skills transposed to politics and all) that I miss. But one night a year or two ago, I watched Jim Lehrer try to interview him, and all Lehrer (a master interviewer by my count) could pry out of him was pap as meaningless as Bill Nelson’s. Content-free, all-purpose, 100%-unresponsive mushmouth.
Whoever wants it is welcome to ALL my share of Harry Reid.
All the Republican support, advisors, funds, do not come without a price. If Lieberman wins, the chits will be called in. Lieberman will caucus with the Republicans. Period. Reid can’t be that stupid….can he?
Why can’t the Dem leadership make it clear to Joe that from here on out, whether he does or does not keep his seniority or get plum committee assignments is going to depend on his actions as a Democrat from this point forward. Hold Joe to his words: “I’m a loyal Democrat,” and define for him what that means: “you vote with us, you campaign for Democrats, you stop undermining the chances of picking up House seats by campaigning with Republicans. If you don’t, all bets are off, and we have incumbent Democrats who can ascend to the positions you would have had, who understand what it means to be a Democrat.”
If he responds with, “But I have to do whatever it takes to win,” then the answer to that is equally clear. “Then we have to do what it takes to make sure the Democrat in this race wins.”
alabama @ 15
I understand everyone wants Lieberman punished for his self-serving candidacy.
But has anyone ever been relieved of committee assignments PRIOR to the general election?
How does this help Lamont get elected?
Are undecided voters, leaning Lieberman, going to suddenly make up their minds in favor of Lamont because Joe has been told by Harry Reid he’s no longer on the Armed Services Committee?
If Joe is no longer on the Armed Services Committee, will Bechtel suddenly give money to Lamont? Lamont doesn’t take PAC money.
Maybe you could enlighten me, because frankly, I don’t get all the outrage at Harry.
A lot of talk about the political maneuvering involved and a couple of good points raised, but…
What about simply doing what is right! and damn the consequences. Joe is currently running AGAINST the Democratic candidate and should pay the consequences regardless of what happens in Nov.
People are hungry (starving) for leadership and Harry needs to get out in front.
The main reason that ‘Dems are weak on terror’ meme gets any traction is because they act like wussies, even in situations like this where they don’t have to. Harry - show a little sac man!
Dear Senator Reid:
Strip Lieberman of his committee assignments now. Move his freakin’ office to the basement. Remove his desk and replace it with a wobbly folding table. Remove his chair and replace it with a splintery wooden crate. Remove his phone. Replace it with an out-of-order pay phone. Take away his goddamn stapler. And his pens. Replace them with stubby, dull pencils. No mercy. Do it all NOW. Make him jump to the Republicans NOW, not after the election. Strip him, and force him to choose what clothes to wear. And do it now. By forming his own vanity party, he has left the Democratic party. He is now the most junior of junior senators. Treat him as such.
karen allen @ 44
This seems so obvious to me. I can’t imagine that Harry is this dense.
I’m not sure I buy the fact that Harry’s hands are tied. Even if there is a big vote of some kind coming up, has Harry been able to count on Joe’s vote in the past? Alito, anyone?
Meanwhile, on the other side of the building, I wonder how the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee feels about Joe campaigning against THEIR candidates for the House. Seems to me that if anyone on Capitol Hill should get riled up about this, it would be them. They are the folks getting directly shafted, since Joe’s working straight-up against their efforts to retake the House.
Ah, more phone calls . . .
oh sweet jeebus Mister Leopardskin Pill Box Hat !
if we spotlight it, all we’ll hear is those nasty, impatient bloggers were banging on the weakness of the Party again !
but then again, the Moose is out of ideas for another post . . .
sorry for being so squirrelly y’all - but if Jane Hamsher doesn’t know what they’re up to, how the hell am I to make sense of the frustrating crap these guys are pulling ?
clearly these clowns expected to be greeted as Lieberators . . .
lina - I think you’ve got a really good thought there…
Wouldn’t Joe’s funding dry up if he is stripped of his committee seats?
Good morning, all!
How does this help Lamont get elected?
Lieberman is touting his seniority, striped of it he cannot use that in the election.
Also, the money coming to Lieberman is based on his senority, therefore stripping him of his senority takes the wind out of his fundraising, and right now that is all he has.
The DSCC web page has stopped listing LIEberman as a dem but still has him as an independant with no mention of his de facto GOP status.
Greedy
Obtuse
Pedophiles.
Tom @
43
My feeling exactly. “If Lieberman wins”? Why not just make sure he doesn’t?!
Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing Ned tonight in NYC — along with The Roots! — at the Katrina fundraiser. I never thought I’d see a Senate candidate in Crobar, should be interesting…
Joe crossed the line a long time ago. I’m not worried about whether he’ll become a Republican because he already has. And I really don’t fucking want him in the Democratic Party - at all. End of handwringing with Harry or Chuck or Bidens of the world. The only thing left for us to do is to put all our efforts into making sure Ned gets elected. He is a real live star and he will demonstrate that any day of the week.
I think it’s time to design another phony check to put into DSCC and DCCC return envelopes.
On the “pay to” line how about
“You’ll get my money when you fully support Progressive Democratic candidates, and not before”
any better suggestions? It’ll be up on my site soon.
Share your comments with Senate Minority Leader Reid on my blog post at his website.
Give Harry Hell here: http://www.giveemhellharry.com.....anfran/BhF
We must do several things. Double and redouble our efforts on behalf of the Lamont campaign. Ned MUST win and then the Lieberfreak can change parties and take a cabinet post as a repuke.
But we must also NOW get Joke tossed out of the party. He dissed the rules since his loss the Lamont. He can serve out his term as a loyal democrat or be booted out as a disloyal spoiler (which he is). Therefore Reid, the DSSC and all the other beltway D’s must disabuse themselves of the notion that Joke is with the democratic voters. Joke is with Joke and sound more like an R pulling for Israel than a connecticutarian pulling for jobs and getting our troops home ASAP.
Joke must go and go NOW and if he stays in the race he MUST BE TROUNCED.
Actually, what Reid should do is say this:
“Joe, we’ve been nice to you so far. We’ve let you keep your committee assignments.
BUT IF YOU CAMPAIGN FOR REPUBLICANS, WE WILL TAKE THEM AWAY FROM YOU.
You’ve already been given one ‘gimme’. You won’t get another one.”
That will make Joe stop.
clearly these clowns expected to be greeted as Lieberators . . .
Ooowee, Clare is ON today, y’all.
Reid is a weak leader; he’s no Lyndon Johnson in the Senate. He personally may (by unquotable reports) be furious with Joe and agree with us, but he does not crack heads in the caucus and supposedly does not think he has the votes to strip him. . . at least, that’s what I got from back channels last week. Whatever.
He doesn’t even want to call a vote before the elections, though the vote would be via secret ballot in closed caucus session. No staffers, just the senators. He’s following the lowest common denominator in the caucus, but I’ll bet if he called a vote, they would feel intense pressure to dump him. They just don’t want to go on the record.
Insiders say it’s because they fear Joe may win and seriously fuck with them, though for others, they just want to keep the corporate cash flow and legalized lobbyist bribes coming. I’m sure Schumer is trying to hedge all bets and applying pressure to Reid.
It’s true Joe could really fuck them all over, and all their home-state agendas, given the rules the Senatae operates under. But he’s already fucking them so hard they’re ordering all new seat cushions.
It’s a pathetic situation.
lina @ 47
What you say makes good sense. But, I also have to say for me only, that it’s an example thing perhaps. Future charlatan Democrats: take note.
Hey, Kai! Um … for us out here in the sticks, what’s Crobar?
This is an Animal House moment. Time to chop up the Lincoln and disrupt the Joe parade. Only problem is Harry is no Bluto.
scarecrow @
25
I would never call you obtuse.
My guess is Jane’s position is from her gut about Joe’s strategy. Joe is betting that he can hold onto 30% of the Democratic votes, because they won’t notice he’s campaigning with Republicans. The three Republicans want to ride Joe’s coattails. They want some of those Dems that Joe thinks will be voting for him to vote for them, plus the independents.
My sense is now that the Democrats have nothing to lose in stripping Joe of his posts. It’s better to face that now. If Joe were to win, (I don’t think that will happen), he would go with the majority party.
.
Hmmmm, it just dawned on me why Reid is holding back. Lamont is an “outsider” candidate. If Reid shows too much affection for him, it could backfire on him making it look like he is backed by the party establishment. If the Lamont campaign is fueled by a “throw the bums out” mentality, then Reid has to provide covert support. I think he is providing enough rope for Leiberman to hang himself.
Lamont is correct to continue to reject PAC money and not to court the party too much.
He’s gonna win anyway.
windje at 41
I think this is right. I have not seen a strong argument explaining why officially punishing Joe now helps Ned win in November. There are lots of what I think are irrelevant reasons:
We don’t like Joe.
We think he’s a traitor to his party.
We think he’s hurting the 3 dems.
We think he’ll turn on Dems if he wins.
and so on.
I can accept all of these and still don’t see how stripping Joe of whatever he has helps Ned win. My problem is there are all kinds of Dems that, for better or worse, we’re counting on to get to 51. And several of them are just as bad as or worse than JL, and on more issues than just the war, choice, energy, etc. So that explains why the Dem leadership would be extremely reluctant to strip JL.
What I want the Dem leadership to do is to help Ned win — endorsements, money, directed fund-raising, embracing him (as Dean did last night) as the smart, successful new face of the Dem party. If someone can explain why publically punishing Joe in the proposed manner helps Ned win, I’ll join the chorus, but right now, I’m still singing off key. Sorry.
RevDeb @ 58
“No money from me until you stand up to Joe Lieberman’s campaigning with Republican House candidates!”
Be specific - we’re talking about Joe, and this is why.
Contact info for Jim Manley, Harry Reid’s spokesman:
202-224-3542 (fax: 7327)
Ask him if Reid will stand by while Lieberman campaigns for Republican Congressional candidates in CT.
Hi lotus!
Crobar’s one of the biggest, most popular nightclubs in NYC, usually packed with halter-topped hormone-dripping 20-somethings on Red Bull and vodka. I have a feeling the vibe tonight will be a little different, given the subject matter…though they’ve got a hot line-up and an open bar, so you never can tell…
When the democratic grass roots makes its voice heard, it would be nice if Reid, Schumer and other Dems listened, and took supporting action. It has been a hard slog these past several years with the neo-cons in office, but part of the problem getting things done must be laid at the door of the deaf Dems. Joe Lieberman is not only a loser, he’s a backstabber. If the Dems think they can placate this guy they’re nuts or worse. If Lieberman wins he will be even more of a meglomaniac than now. He will polish his newly acquired McCain like maverick status to spotlight himself as a powerplayer. He will sabotage the Democratic party under the guise of serving his deeply held personal convictions. Leiberman is like an old boyfriend - get rid of him, don’t offer any encouragement. Should he decide to caucus with Republicans if elected at least he will have been unmasked for the fraud everone knows him to be. Hear this, Democratic leadership games, whether hedging bets, or the incumbent backscratch, are not playing real well with the voters.
windje 41–it’s not a side issue. The point is, it would be much easier to defeat the seniority-less GOP candidate for the CT Senate than a senior member of the Democratic caucus.
The Republicans are going to offer Joe chairmanship of any committee he wants, and Hadassah will suddenly get offers to join corporate boards. You tell me how much party loyalty it would take to accept those offers, given that he nows “feels liberated” to take the positions he really believes in.
Titanyum 37 asked: how real is this possibility that it all comes down to Joe? Personally I’d estimate it somewhere around 20% probability of happening. But it can be calculated pretty accurately, which I will get around to someday soon. Doubtless our friends (or more accurately, their staffers) in the Senate have done the calculation.
Phil Anders 26–Committee appointment slates are voted on by the full Senate. However, the slates for majority and minority committee members are made in caucus, and the vote is pro forma. There are a number of rules (see, e.g. here). As a practical matter the rules, and to some extent, the caucus leader (through decisions about eligibility) basically determine a lot of it. But it is possible to change the rules in the caucus, as has been done in the past.
CNN repoting LIEberman insulting Dems again. Also the poll of the days panders to the fundies: Were scientists correct in saying Pluto is not a planet? They are asking people to vote on this??
scarecrow, I have great respect for your judgement, so I’m going to continue to monitor comments on this issue before commenting again.
Wrt this, however,“And several of them are just as bad as or worse than JL,” I don’t agree. What makes Joe so bad imo is that he’s from such a blue state. A Vichy Dem like Ben Nelson from NE is much easier to understand, because NE is so Red.
alabama @ 15
Very good question. Of course, if all you’re concerned about is your personal safety, then it’s a pretty good bet that your “leadership” quality won’t get used very often — sometimes being a leader is to face danger head-on for the underlying principle, regardless of what might happen. If the Dems aren’t willing to take stands on even what it means to be part of their party, we might be in worse shape than we thought.
Those in possession of a DSCC “ask” letter are free to download the “blog check lamont” here and cut them out and send them in the envelopes enclosed with the letters.
I know that they probably don’t need our money, but there are many ways of sending a message. This is one.
39 & 40–I am skimming here so I apologize if this has already been said. For me, what is problematic, is that Lieberman is holding everyone hostage–the state of Connecticut and the Democratic party. If the Dems weren’t hedging their bets and just came out and said that or something close to it–publicly telling him to get out of the race–I think Lamont’s chances of winning would be greater. In other words, Dems reticence to get off the fence b/c Joe might win (and then what) help Joe win.
Agreeing with lotus, John Casper, and Pachacutec
that Harry Reid guy ? Two Words . . .
Rule 21
scarecrow @ 69
It helps Ned by reinforcing the notion that Joe is a Republican in Democratic clothing.
To me, this is no side issue. The “big picture” isn’t simply getting Ned elected, nor is it some kind of purity purge of the Democratic party. The big picture is taking back control of both the House and Senate, and bringing some accountability to DC. Joe’s not just messing with Ned, but now he’s screwing over the chances for taking back the House.
Believe me - I want Ned to win. Lieberman has stood in front of accountability far too often. But this election is about more than Ned and Joe - it’s about the whole notion of electing a Congress willing to rein in King George!
To put it another way: for whom, nominally Democratic or Republican, might the election of Lieberman be so important that it would completely eclipse the very important issue of party membership, leadership, seniority, etc.? If any such folks there be, wouldn’t theyl be spending lots of money on Lieberman’s reelection? And if so, how do we find out who they are, if indeed they are?
Lieberman campaigns for Republican Congressional candidates
Can you read, Harry?
OT - since Bush’s statement, “Osama - Dead or Alive”?
1,800 days…
It seems to me that Lieberman campaigning with Republicans is already a chip called in by the Republicans for their support. Lieberman cut a Faustian deal with Rove.
Joe LIEberman appearing/campaigning with republicans . . .
Can someone tell me why isn’t this a dream come true for democrats?
To Peterrr I couldn’t agree more that the big picture can’t be ignored, but winning (and a big win by Lamont may create some coattails) is everything.
John C, my friend:
I agree with all/most of this, but I don’t think it addresses my question. Even if Dems “have nothing to lose,” what is the effect on Ned’s chances of winning? The issue is Ned, not the Dems. The Dems issue comes later.
To Old Coastie and Alice Marshall:
Maybe, but consider this: if you strip Joe now, his funding doesn’t necessarily dry up, because the betting of K-street would be that drumming Joe out of the party assures he holds seniority and possibly becomes chair on committees — but as a very pissed off Republican.
It might be slightly too dismissive to call Reid’s position “a side issue”, but I do agree with the overall sentiment: seems to me that the best mental and spiritual posture for Lamont and his supporters is, We’re gonna win no matter what you folks do…
The FDA has approved Plan B for OTC.
The Bush Admin is going all out to help Lieberman -
what is this blog’s obsession with Lieberman ? Jesus it borders on the neurotic.
Reid voted FOR the Bankruptcy Bill - ’nuff said.
Big question for me and one I hear on the talking head shows is that Joe will win, if he wins, on the vote of republicans and independents. Question: How can independents vote for a guy so chillingly close to republicans and supported solely by them?
Personally, when I see a fox wearing granny’s bonnet, I still still a fox. Joe is wearing, or trying to, the dem ‘bonnet’ to fool everyone. Is it working?
I assume that independents in CT are still voting for Joe in large enough numbers to overcome the dems?
And our D.C. dem leaders are showing their lack of spine — again.
scarecrow at 88 — don’t you think Joe’s already a very pissed off Republican — in all but the official announcement? I certainly do. After a campaign appearance today with two CT Republicans, one of whom is in a very tight race for his House seat and the other of whom is a Governor running for re-election in a race that, should it prove to be more competitive, could have voter turn-out implications for the good for the Dem House candidates. He’s already doing his passive agressive stab the Dem party in the back kabuki dance. It’s all there but the official ink on the page as far as I’m concerned — and has been with every behind-the-scenes maneuver he’s been orchestrating since the asinine false website accusations on the day of the primary. (For which there still has been no apology or correction from the CFL camp. Go figure.)
Thanks for the picture of Crobar, Kai. Can’t wait for your report tomorrow morning!
BTW, on the Courant’s Most Emailed List, Orman’s op-ed is now #7 of 20 (and highly-recommended to all Nutmeggers).
scarecrow @ 69
me too.
If you want to make a useful call today, call the DSCC and tell them to get off their lazy behinds and spend some money on the Jim Webb campaign.
If the Dems pick up VA, they are closed to the six seats Harry needs to be able to tell Lieberman to take a hike.
ron at 91 — you don’t like it, start your own blog. Jane has been following this race since Lamont entered it in January — due to Turncoat Joe’s smarmy cloture vote on Alito. We cover what we think is important — and this race certainly qualifies as important this year.