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Millionaire Joe Lieberman, the number one recipient of defense industry lobbying money in the Senate who has never missed an opportunity to pimp their lucrative war, is criticizing Ned Lamont for owning $50,000 worth of stock in -- Halliburton.
From the limited disclosure he had under the 'Senate ethics' that he has stock in 'Halliburton,' and he has stock in, more stock in some of the big oil companies. That's something for everybody to judge," says Joe Lieberman, (D) Connecticut.
That would be a crime?" asks Mark Davis.
"Oh no, this is just public right to know."
This would be the same Joe Lieberman who thought it was just hunky-dory that Dick Cheney got filthy, pig stinking rich off Halliburton during their 2000 reach-around debate:
LIEBERMAN: Dick Cheney must be one of the few people who think nothing has been accomplished in the last eight years. Promises were made and promises were kept. Has Al Gore -- did Al Gore make promises in 1992? Absolutely. Did he deliver? Big time. Let me put it that way. That's the record. Look at the 20 -- look at the 22 million new jobs. Look at the 4 million new businesses. Look at the lower interest rates, low rate of inflation, high rate of growth. I think if you asked most people in America today that famous question that Ronald Reagan asked, "Are you better off today than you were eight years ago?" Most people would say yes. I'm pleased to see, Dick, from the newspapers that you're better off than you were eight years ago, too.
CHENEY: I can tell you, Joe, the government had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Watch Lieberman planting seeds about war with Iran above (thanks to CTBlogger). Does it occur to anyone that people who want to rake Lamont over the coals and buy into this high hypocricy for the sake of "balance" are missing a much larger point?
I don't blame Lamont -- any information he releases will simply provide more fodder for distracting bullshit like this. What votes did he cast that could have been effected by his private holdings? Did some pot hole in Greenwitch get filled that otherwise wouldn't? ( As one commenter over at TPM Cafe said, "News flash: Senatorial canditate is a capitalist! Can someone notify the Politbureau please?")
Meanwhile, Ned has released the list relevant to the topic at hand -- the names of the donors to his political campaign. Joe Lieberman has steadfastly refused to do so. Joe Lieberman is a sitting US Senator who has cast votes that very well might have been influenced by folks on that list.
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NED!
What does Joe say about the Vice President and his ties to Halliburton….
EPU’d, more on-topic here:
Just got this email from the Lamont campaign:
time to dig a little deeper….
is joe angling for more than a kiss?
Lieberman is in the last throes of his “public service”, digging in his heels and hanging on with every last claw. It’s not YOUR senate seat; it belongs to the people of Connecticut, fool.
OT - of fer gawd’s sakes! Chambliss is on the MSNBC saying that all the civilian deaths in Iraq speaks to all the progress we are making there….
I can’t take it much longer!
Ya know . . . . .
I just plain don’t like that guy.
cripey, i want to move to CT just to oust this horrible dweeb-enabler-mofo!
keep the pressure on, jane and christy and crew!
In the spirit of disclosure, how does the voting public feel about where Joe’s wife gets her money? Isn’t she a lobbyist for drug companies? Haven’t they benefitted enormously from Joe’s support? Does anyone see a conflict?
The fact that Josh Marshall gets caught up in this bullshit about Lamont is just beyond my ability to understand.
I think Josh is getting caught up the need to seem “reasonable” by trashing people on both sides of the aisle, even to the point of going along with flakey, GOP-manufactured ethics “issues” like this one.
Josh is beginning to get a little too cocktail-circuity for my taste.
Jane, maybe you meant “hunky-dory”? “Hinky” is copspeak for “suspicious.”
Lieberman is desperate, so transparently desperate. The voters of CT are going to see this for what it is, the last gasps of a dying politician…
wxyz at 10 — I think Josh comes at this from a journalist’s reporting perspective, and he’s great at it. But that isn’t a partisan perspective which, in this race in particular, is the sentiment that is driving a lot of the Lieberman opposition. So there is bound to be some friction in that intersection, ya know? But there is also a lot of value in understanding the persepctives of both sides on this — you have to really know where the other side is coming from in order to counter them and defeat them. That has a lot of usefulness, I think.
What votes did he cast that could have been effected by his private holdings? Did some pot hole in Greenwitch get filled that otherwise wouldn’t?
That and the “capitalist” statement would make an excellent rebuttal ad.
i think this is a bit more than a distraction. just a few days ago this very site offered a post on the war profiteers called haliburton. i dont live in connecticut and i loath lieberman. FDL is the reason i made my first contribution to a candidate in another state. the issue is not whether or not Lamont is a capitalist - the fact is that by investing in halliburton Lamont too is profiting from the war. i must say that my heart dropped upon learning this. i understand the nature of smear and diversion but i think Mr. Lamont should pay close attention to this news - it reads lousey to us working stiffs who dont even make $50,000 a year.
Sonoma Rus just summed up my feelings precisely.
Update of a story I mentioned in a prior thread this morning: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0719.html
WHy is this tax return issue getting any traction at all? It makes no sense. It’ snot a controversy. No one I have spoken w/ in CT seems to care. My guess is that “friendly” media ask these softball questions to continue to try and make this an issue.
As Jane note’s above, Joe’s refusal to release a list of donors and clients is a lot more relevent.
I’m thinking outloud here, but I’d love to stir the pot re: Joe’s refusal to release that important info.
Anyone have any ideas? Do we know any watchdog groups that might be already involved in this? (The whole lobbyist spouse connection - tracking conflicts of interest etc.)
Seriously. If anyone has any direction to point me in, I’ll run w/ it for a bit.
My response to a concern troll over at MyDD on the stock issue was this.
Bottom line, I’m more concerned about Haddassah’s lobbying clients than I am about any stock to be found in Ned and Annie Lamont’s portfolio.
Lieberman tries this shit, send it right back to him.
Do we know that Lamont directly invested in Haliburton or are these stocks part of a larger package his money manager is working with…. Not that it matters, just curious.
Distracting? Nay Jane. YOU are distracting (distractingly lovely) while Joe is just…a flaming moron.
I’m not rich by any means so I don’t have $50,000 invested in anything (other than that and more invested, so to speak, in my house) but I do have a small amount in a Mutual Fund and an IRA. In both cases, I have only a very loose inkling of what my money has been invested in. I toss a little money at my “money managers” (the brokerage) and they put the money into shares of the mutual fund.
I have no direct control over what company’s stocks are included in that mutual fund…I trust those who make a living doing nothing but looking at financial shit so as to pick companies to invest client money in. If I had $50,000 invested in the mutual fund or the IRA then one could “accuse” me of directly and consciously supporting Shell Oil if that is one of the components (one of a hundred or so other companies) of the fund?
I think it would be bad form, though in no way illegal, for Lamont to specifically and consciously invest in Halliburton, or having done so and then seeing the way they behave, continuing to keep that money invested in them, that is not what he did. Hell, most people tend to pass on those sorts of dealings to “money managers” or brokers. They exist for a reason. If you are invested all over evolution you could well spend ALL your otherwise useful time just pouring over boring crap like financial statements 24/7.
What I want to see is Lieberman’s donor list. THAT is what inquiring minds want to see.
Christy,
Hmmm… I totally agree it is useful to get the other side’s perspective on this.
I just wish that Josh, as an investigative journalist/editorialist, could identify GOP-generated bullshit stories when he sees them and focus his attention elsewhere.
If you click through to the article that he notes on his main page (which isn’t written by him) you will see that it is the classic “process” type journalism that I think we all at FDL are totally fed up with.
It is all about how Ned’s ownership of Halliburton stock will “play” in the media and whether it will develop into a “big story”. It even went on to speculate about how this may make Ned look like a rich guy who doesn’t even pay attention to $50,000 dollar investments.
Who cares! This isn’t investigative journalism!
For this sort of “process” reporting, I can turn on Chris Matthews and George Stephanopolis.
I would prefer that Josh and his team stick to the more significan issues. And if they were going to discuss Lamont’s ownership of Halliburton, it shouldn’t have been so focused on “process”, which is lazy, lazy journalism.
OT– Snowjob just said that “this is not even a war”– there are “hostilities” between Lebanon and Israel.
tell that to the dead.
orwellian.
GO NED!
hehehehehe Just go read Jesus General…
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com.....9164999824
You’ll thank me later.
I hope Lamont has or will divest any/all Halliburton stock, no matter the $$$ cost. He needs to come out of this smelling like a rose.
If Lamont were smart he would have unloaded this stock, or acted like me… I knew the stock would go up but morally would not buy it.
That being set Joeloser is a fatcat hypocritter - but what else is to be expected from a classic Republican attack campaign like Joeloser is running. Rule 1: Project your weakness onto your opponent on day zero.
Christy - LOL chez le General!
Pardon if this is German (previous posted) but did anyone catch Tucker Carlson yesterday “interviewing” the Israeli general counsel?
The GC said: “We are doing the Lebanese a favor” by bombing the snot out of them becuase they are attacking Hezbullah?
Tucker couldn’t agree more but was worried about the damage to the “infrastructure.”
What about the dead and wounded Lebanese Tucker?
Angie 23 -
Don’t forget that he mentioned yesterday that “killing” fertilized ova is “murder.”
_
Ned, is the real deal. A brilliant, educated self-made man who want to do real good and give back.
If a large group of Democrats would vote against Ned because he’s made himself a fortune…
… than I really am a man without a party.
Jenny ftb at 19, Ned has said that he was unaware of the investment; it was made by his money manager, just as you said.
Jane,
I am confused about the assertion that Leiberman is refusing to release the names of his campaign contributors.
My understanding of federal campaign finance rules (and I have just been asked to chair a subcommittee on election law at the oldest Bar Association in the country, so I think I have a passing familiarity–or else should decline the invitation) is that every contribution over $200 must be accompanied by a form with the name of the contributor AND the name of the contributor’s employer must be itemized and reported to the FEC.
Any contribution over $50 must have the donor information records in file as well. Are you sayinf he refused to release the $50-$199 donor records? Because as I understand it, the $200 donors should all be on the FEC data base.
Thanks Leslie, it makes sense.
Jesus General rides again! That was priceless.
Joe Schmoe is getting whinier by the moment. God, I’d give anything to be in CT right now. Just think of all the trouble we could stir up. Go Jane, go!
Yeah, BobbyG and I think he just said that the diplomatic process with Syria “stinks” historically, although I could be having auditory hallucinations after his first gargantuan fallacy.
From the Stamford Advocate –
It seems this kind of thing should be going on all over the state.
If Lamont scrambles to divest he’s playing on their field. I guess he doesn’t have a choice but the whole thing stinks.
LH_ - I think it’s a TIMING issue. The data lags the primary. Ned got out in front of it, Joe refuses to do so.
I could be mistaken though.
LindaR, Yessssssss! Great news.
A modest suggestion — if you’re frustrated with Josh, perhaps you should be telling him? And why? And keep it civil and productive–I’ve read good comments here, but is this the right/only place for them? And yes, I do agree there should be more speaking out for J-Lie’s donor list…and the public record on the client list of Hadassah/her employer.
Sometimes the small stones need some polishing…. we’re stronger in the blogosphere when we work for the common good.
OT, Mark Morford has a good column today at SFGate, “Bush Gropes, Planet Cringes”. It slashes Bush into itty bitty little pieces.
http://tinyurl.com/pmtpw
Poor Haddassah. Imagine what Joe must smell like these days — flop-sweat/coffee-breath/collar-starch. Ye gods.
Jenny, I think most people understand that it’s most likely an inadvertent investment. Most people don’t manage their own money and would understand this oversight, especially if it’s part of a fund. But to continue to hold it would bother me. Ned should get with Gore’s new fund!
Monster Moustache just announcing this is not the time to call for a ceasefire. These bloodthirty creeps are getting major rocks off here.
Prairie Sunshine -
What makes you think I haven’t emailed Josh directly about this?
Also, it seems to me that my criticism of Josh is exactly the sort of thing that should be going on here.
A critical part of what we are trying to do is understand and perhaps shape the media/blogosphere narrative that is being shaped about this race.
If we leave this out, we are limiting our understanding of how politics work and undermining our ability to create progressive political change.
The civilian deaths represent “progress” if your role model is Jim Jones.
THis is a column of mine that ran at the top of the page in yesterday’s Meriden Record Journal (CT)
There’s no link to it on the Record Journal site so I’m pasting it here.
Enjoy. Hope it raises Holy Joe’s blood pressure
King Joe Lieberman Has Lost His Crown
by Alan Bisbort
At the end of every concert performed by the King of Rock ‘n’ Roll, the announcer used to intone, “Elvis has left the building.” This was a warning that the concert was over and a plea not to trash the place demanding an encore. It was also a reminder of who exactly was the “King” and who were his lowly “subjects.”
That musical ritual has, in the past six months, been transferred to Connecticut politics. Now the announcer intones, “Joe Lieberman has left the party,” even as a few wishful stragglers still hold out tepid hope for an encore. The rest of us Democrats left halfway through “King” Joe’s set, having heard all these songs before, sung better and with more conviction at his earlier concerts. We’ve moved on to the concert venue down the street, where Ned Lamont is playing some catchy new tunes about ending this tragic war in Iraq, about ending the cronyism in Washington D.C., about taking meaningful steps toward energy independence, fixing public transportation and protecting women’s rights. And the more we hear, the more we like.
Finally, it has dawned on us: King Joe Lieberman ain’t nothin’ but a hound dog, crying all the time. He’s “all shook up” because Ned Lamont is stepping all over his blue suede shoes.
All joking aside, this Aug. 8 primary for the Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate is one of the most important the state party has ever faced. Our nation stands at a dangerous crossroads, led by a president who governs like a King. However, King George does not have the Midas touch; his is more like, as the Hollies once sang, “King Midas in reverse.” Everything he touches gets destroyed, from Iraq to Social Security to the aftermath of Katrina. We are no safer, maybe even less so, than we were before 9/11. King George cares more about enriching his Saudi royalty friends than he does about helping out the 90% of us Americans out here—Democrat, Republican, Green, independent, libertarian—who are really struggling right now.
You, rightfully, ask what does Joe Lieberman have to do with this? Just this: when he kisses the architect of this failed administration, he is enabling this failure to continue. When he warns Democrats, “It is time for Democrats who distrust President Bush to acknowledge that he will be Commander-in-Chief for three more critical years, and that in matters of war, we undermine Presidential credibility at our nation’s peril,” he is impugning our patriotism. (You calling me a traitor, Joe? Care to step outside and say that to my face?). When he refers to members of his party who support Ned Lamont as “jihadists” and “hot heads,” he is begging for a cold shower from the voters.
Joe Lieberman has sent our sons and daughters to fight and die in a war that was started under false pretenses—and the flames of which he helped to fan—and he does not have enough character and humility to admit he made a mistake. I, however, am not so inclined. I made a mistake voting for Lieberman in the past. I will not make that mistake again. I believe more than half of the state’s registered Democrats feel the same way—and the number is rising as people get to know Ned Lamont. Indeed, according to recent Quinnipiac polls, Lieberman is more popular among Republicans than Democrats. Adding insult to injuries he’s already inflicted, Joe plans to run for his Senate seat, if he loses the primary, as an independent. What does this say to those of us who will go to the polls on Aug. 8, to vote for, and elect, Ned Lamont as our candidate? It’s telling us that Joe has no respect for us and probably never had.
Why is this race so important? It’s the first chance Americans have had since 2004 to slow down the runaway train of the Bush administration. Let’s make history by electing Ned Lamont on Aug. 8. Let’s start the ball rolling away from the Bush machine and toward a Democratic Congress in 2006 and a Democratic White House in 2008.
Joe Lieberman has left the Democratic Party. It’s time the party left him.
Alan Bisbort is a former member of the Cheshire Environment Commission.
Jenny ftB - thanks for the Morford tip; I’ll check it out. When he’s “on” he can be rude-punditesque
meta 43 -
Yes, that’s really the only way. I just hope he divests in a way that doesn’t look like he’s scrambling because he got “caught”, if you know what I mean… Arrrgh!
punaise -
Morford has his moments, doesn’t he. When he’s good he’s very, very good! :)
Meanwhile, you’ll be proud and happy to know,
House Takes Up ‘Pledge’ Protection
I kid you not.
Lotus, I’m screaming! Bwaaahahaaaaaa. Ouchie!
And obviously Lieberman knows what a money manager is and how the investment process works. What a creep.
wxyz — you’re right. When you didn’t mention that you’d contacted Josh, I assumed you hadn’t. Part of what I appreciate about FDL is when people do share the comments that they’ve made to bloggers or Congresspeople or whatever as part of the context of their comments here.
Maybe I’m overzealous in looking for demonstrations that we’re putting our words into action. Not gonna pull back on that.
It would have been nice if Lamont had divested himself form Halliburton, but there are two things to consider:
Given the size of Lamont’s personal fortune and of Halliburton’s capitalization, does anybody really think this investment made that much of a difference to either? This is rather like when some Naderites tried to make Gore out a hypocrite because his mother owned stock in Occidental Petroleum, while the rightwing media tried to make him out as stupid for being 100% invested in municipal bonds during the stock boom (bubble), the exact same investment policy they used to argue that Greenspan was a living saint (but I digress).
Two: as far as putting his convictions where his mouth is, the man has spent the last (how many?) years teaching kids the government–through underfunded public schools–has effectively abandonned, does anybody outside the Lieberman campaign really want to argue about his commitment and his ethics?
The Encyclopedia Britannica says the people of Canaan (Palestine) were “fainthearted in the face of the Israelite tribes…” The conquest of Canaan by Joshua and the Israelites was “swift and decisive.” Homes were razed, people were displaced and human life was extinguished. Sound familiar?
Urban Pirate
Federal candidates are required to file their reports with the FEC on Jan 31, April 15, July 15, and October 15. In addition pre-election reports are due 12 days before a primary and a general and a specail election.
Contributions over $1,000 recieved between 20 days and 48 hours before an election (any kind of election) must be reported w/i 48 hours on a specail form.
Any camapign expected to have aggregate expenditures or contributions over $50,000 in a calandar year are required to file the reports electronically so the info will be available to the public right away.
Somebody is trying to feed false info. I think they are trying to sabotage our credibilty.
Jane, talk to an election lawyer and double check your specifics before you go out on a limb here. If leiberman didn’t file on the 15th, that is huge news. But I think someone is maybe trying to sucker you.
Joe must be desperate/
lotus 42 - LOL! “flop sweat/coffee-breath/collar- starch” ya do have a way with words.
OT - Tony Snow just told this morning’s press gaggle that he can’t talk about some things until his security clearance is official…adding it should be within a month or so or maybe some weeks….sorry its all lotus’ fault for giving me uncontrollable laughing fits. ;^D
Cheney: “I can tell you, Joe, THE GOVERNMENT had absolutely nothing to do with IT.”
I guess THAT got fixed.
Back to the original Lamont/Halliburton problem. Lamont can solve with one press relaese that says
“If elected I will place my investments in a blind trust”
issue over
Jenny, right - Lieberman is really grasping at straws right now. You hear this desperation in his voice and see that look on his face. It says it all. When it comes to money, he doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Ned should stick to the issues and focus on what the people of CT want solved.
Prairie Sunshine,
I certainly agree that we all need to do MUCH more than express our thoughts on FDL - we need to also take what we learn and the ideas we develop and find ways to make a difference. I couldn’t agree more about that.
Which is why I was in CT last week doing door knocking for Lamont and while I will try to get back and do the same next week. I encourage everyone on FDL to do whatever they can to help as well.
I’m glad y’all enjoyed that, but I can’t really take the credit. It was originally my bro’s speculation re Ashcroft. And I bet I misspelled “Hadassah” to boot.
As the primary approaches and Lieberman increasingly feels the heat, I would expect more negative attacks. I think “Distracting” is a good way to describe this. Don’t look at the record or nonrecord of a 3 term Senator. Don’t look at the beam in Lieberman’s eye. Look at the mote in Lamont’s.
If Lieberman throws mud and loses, he will end his political career a discredited figure. Even if he wins, he will be damaged goods. His record despite his best efforts to hide it has been exposed. His national aspirations are over. His image as a statesman held mostly by himself is laughably punctured. His hypocrisy in sermonizing to Clinton and fawning before Bush will be remembered as will his contempt for his party and his constituents. Joe has other loyalties, you see, and they are to himself and his career.
Loyus,
It was funny, but darlin’ I’m trying to eat lunch here
Ooo, scoozy, lhp!
Lamont should just say — I did not know which stock I owned, but since you have unearthed this fact, I will immediately sell it and give the money to a fund that helps disabled soldiers in this misbegotten war in Iraq that you so fervently support.
But Joe how are you going to disavow all the votes you took that gave Bush the power he needs to use Halliburton as a money tree for his friends. You want to speak out on that? Joe? Where are you Joe? thought you were here …
All I can say, is that it’s Liarman’s *positions* that make me want to see his campaign’s lists of donors, Haddassah’s clients, etc. And follow the money trail. And for me, just watching the above clip where Lieberman is dangerously and disingenously laying all the blame on Iran (what next Syria?) for Israel and Lebanon’s problems makes my blood boil. That and the pharmaceutical legislation, etc.
Lamont is clean as far as I am concerned. He doesn’t take money from lobbyists. And what money he does have from whatever stocks doesn’t change his opinion on the suckiness of the war. That’s a big difference between him and Liarman.
GrandmaJ -
That is our answer.
Someone who has connections should forward GrandmaJ’s post to Lamont’s campaign team, pronto.
Just now listening to the clip posted above. JoMo is really reading from the PNAC/Weekly Standard script: The terrorist government in Iran/this is part of the larger war on radical Islam, etc…
How did anybody with that voice ever make it modern politics. He makes Hillary Clinton sound like Kathleen Turner.
Good response Jane. I caught that blurb at Josh’s site last night and had to throw it in the comments knowing it wouldn’t get by you for a second.
I don’t fault Josh or the folks at the muckraker for covering it. If it’s muck, they are going to cover it and this was certainly muck. True, it’s a rather silly and petty point, but it’s still something his team will cover in election politics.
Consider this is the only counter attack that Joe has thrown that actually has a basis in truth, it says a lot more about how pathetic Joe’s campaign looks right now. I mean, if this is the worst they can do then all I can say is HA!
Gotta love an incumbent splattering like a fly on a windshield. Just wipe it up and move on.
Froomkin on fire!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00504.html
mui
you shoul be able to see leiberman’s list of contributors on the FEC website or try WWW.MOTHERJONES.COM
I haven’t checked. If he has NOT filed with the FEC and has not gotten a temporary extension, THAT IS HUGE NEWS and I would love to know about it.
i’m with grandmaj - a good, simple solution that could assuage those queasy with the words “lamont”, “haliburton” and “investment.”
Man, Lieberman just played those reporters like a Strativarius.
“He also owns stock in several large oil companies, so that’s for the people to judge…”
Apparently none of those reporters know that Hadassah works for Big Pharma, or at least none of them are interested. Lieberman was a smooth little slimeball in that script.
wxyz — #61
props to you!
OMFG Christy! That was absolutely beautiful!
Jim, I agree with your points. I’m just saying that a simple phone call from Lamont to his MM would end any further discussion of a minor issue that Joe is trying to turn into a big deal. Punto. Just drop the shit and move on. Why let it get in the way of anything else? And my point is that he should divest not because Joe found out or that it’s a horrible political blunder, but because it’s wrong.
Friends of Lieberman April quarterly up at:
http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/fecimg/?C00235515
July quarterly not there (yet).
GrandmaJ #66
Pricesless!
Just as an aside:
WHere is HoJo’s ‘outrage’ after hearing Gonzo admit the Prez blocked the OPR probe into NSA domestic spying? THAT is at the very least unethical. Decry me a river…
—–
(more aside)
Eureka!
‘Crashing the Gate’ (via local library)
Thanks to all librarians.
ooops, GrandmaJ #66
Priceless!!!!!!
meta @66: I was speaking more in rhetorical frustration to the MSM than to anyone here, I guess.
I was just thinking of emailing joe2006.com and asking how much Hadassah has collected in her most recent stint as a lobbyist. Would that be counterproductive with my out of state status?
65
GrandmaJ says
July 19th, 2006 at 10:10 am
Lamont should just say — I did not know which stock I owned, but since you have unearthed this fact, I will immediately sell it and give the money to a fund that helps disabled soldiers in this misbegotten war in Iraq that you so fervently support.
Gosh, I really seem to be the contrarian here today, but I must respectfully disagree with Grandma J.
It’s not fair to the next candidate, who may not be able to afford to donate the procedes of an investment.
It createes a new weapon that a candidate can use to discourage their opponent from continuing in a race saying ” you invested in X stock, I thin that’s terrible, you shoud sell X stock and give the money to charity”
Well what if that candidae is not filthy rich? what if X stock represents his kid’s college fund? that candidate will drop out.
You cannot make the ability to donate you way out of trouble any kind of criterai for a candidate, or only the rich will be able to run.
It’s a really steep, slick, slippery slope
Go to opensecrets.org - they have all kinds of info on who is giving and how much.
Amen sista GrandmaJ!! Give Ned a call!
Re Josh and TPM: There is an ongoing tension between those who see themselves primarily as progressives and those who may be progressive but identify more with an established party, like the Democrats. You see much the same dynamic with Kos or when Peter Daou goes to work for Hillary. It may be irritating but it is hardly surprising.
I find this whole flap a bit odd. Assume you, as a money manager, figure out that a rich, corrupt crony has become the most powerful VP in history, and has continued close ties with his former employer–a gigantic government contractor. That would tend to suggest that the gov’t contractor’s about to make a whole lot more money and if you’re right, your clients benefit. Turns out his money manager was right. Good for him. What effect does this practically have on governance–of either the country or the corporation? Zero.
On the other hand, suppose your wife works for big Pharma in government relations and you, as a sitting senator, are constantly pounded with requests for that industry. Which presents the tougher ethical problem?
Did we used to have an ActBlue button for Lamont? It doesn’t load on my page. If this was discussed and/or waiting for Jane to return in triumph, please excuse the question.
looseheadprop -
I have to disagree - Lamont is wealthy enough to divest, so he should. Grandma J came up with a perfect way to do so.
I’m not sure why you are worried about precedent.
“Precedent” or “slippery slope” arguments are usually used, in my experience, when no good arguments exist.
My idea of a perfect Lamont response just wrote itself. It reminds me a bit of the gradeschool playground where someone calls you a name and the best defense is ‘If I am …., what are you?
It must be turned around quickly with the outrage pointed right back at the initial slimeball thrower. Can’t ignore it. Can’t be defensive. Throw the goll darn slimeball back even harder. [wanted so much to swear but don’t want to clog any toobz]
OT–Troops on the ground on both sides now acc to cnn– so much for the border/blue line. Is it a war now, Snowjob or just a little border skirmish?
I’m with Jim,
The thing Joe is not forced to report, and which probably will not show up in his tax returns (unless Hadassah’s lobbying is done as a sole proprietor and I doubt they are that unsophisticated) are the indenties od Hadassah’s lobbying clients, the fees paid AND THE TIMING OF THE FEES RELATIVE TO CRITCAL VOTES.
Linky for donating to Lamont campaign.
Looseheadprop - the weapon you described already exists anyway. Lieberman is attacking Lamont for owning stock of Halliburton. He would attack whether or not Lamont could afford to divest. Lamont can afford to divest, so he should. Future campaigners who are trapped in a similar situation should do what is best in that particular situation. What Lamont does here has zero bearing on such future campaigners. No slippery slope exists. I call bullshit.
I was searching for a link to info about Cheney’s $20 million dollar “unsigning” bonus (read: investment) from Halliburton at the same time he cut retirees’ health benefits. I came across this link to a Capitol Gang transcript talking about Joe Lieberman. Kind of interesting.
Re Josh Marshall: I’ve read that he has lots of friends on Lieberman’s staff, and that’s why he’s hestitant to call Lieberman out. He also counts among his friends Marshall Whittman and Mickey Kaus. Yeah, that Mickey Kaus.
I like Marshall, he’s done some good work on Social Security and he gets great posters at TPMCafe, but he himself is a member of the Beltway Establishment’s Junior League, I think.
LHD - Actually I agree with you too. The divestment part could be dropped if a candidate cannot realistically do that.
but the part where the candidate must throw the slimeball back — hard — I do believe must stand. A slightly different approach for each candidate. Ned can divest, others may not be able to, but acknowledge and return serve.
Happy talk:
In Beirut, Embassy Tells Stranded Americans: Evacuation Is a Mouse-Click Away
Tony Snow says ‘no war’ in Lebanon… Developing…
and not:
ACLU suggests US may be spying on three other financial services
PS: If anybody couldn’t make it all the way through that video clip, the Big Pharma Lobbyist’s husband tried to use a private citizen’s proportionately insignificant investment in Halliburton to connect Ned Lamont to the REPUBLICANS’ lobbying/bribe scandal. The man really has no conscience.
Jim at 95,
Thank you. That is extremely edifying and helps to explain Josh’s “agnoticism” on Lamont/Lieberman.
I find it rather grotesque (to use Condi’s term of choice) that he is so influence by his buddies regarding a candidate who helped give Bush aid and comfort in his effort to destroy social security, one of Josh’s most significant causes.
On Lieberman, at least, Josh has thrown his lot in with the cocktail circuit crowd. Grotesque.
This campaign must be a real eye-opener for Lamont - being targeted so viciously by the sleaze machine. Even seasoned politicians like Gore and Kerry must’ve been stunned by the tactics: Swiftboat, Al Gore invented the internet!, blah blah blah. Who woulda thunk AWOL would get away with painting Kerry as a coward or Max Cleland morphing into, what was it, Osama Bin Laden? Who woulda thunk it?
They sink to new lows everyday. It’s hard to fathom the depths of their depravity, especially since these races are on a national level where all eyes are on them. These ain’t no local sheriff races. Crazy.
WXYZ
that ’s what they said when the, then, unprecedented demand was made of Geraldine Ferrara that she release her personal and her husband’s business tax returns when she ran for VP
At the time there was a lot of press and she protested that it would create a precedent that would be used in future to invade the privacy of candidates and discourage otherwise exellent candidates from even considering a run.
NOOO, the reply came, this is a specail thing, and the slippery slope arguement is made when yo uhave something to hide.
Turned out, Gerry was right, wasn’t she. BTW, young campaign volunteer that I was, I bent her ear for a full 1/2 hour urging her not to give in and do it (with her husband stnading there saying ” listen, even the kid understnads it”)–but the so called cmapign professionals had there way.
now it is virtually SOP to release a candidates tax returns
OT -
Another feather in Bush’s Middle East hat:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00823.html
I wonder what kind of ramifications this will have since Turkey is now in the EU.
OT– whoo-boy a big bang from Froomkin:
>>>>>>>>>
Here for instance, is Bush in March 2005: “And any who doubt the appeal of freedom in the Middle East can look to Lebanon, where the Lebanese people are demanding a free and independent nation. In the words of one Lebanese observer, ‘Democracy is knocking at the door of this country and, if it’s successful in Lebanon, it is going to ring the doors of every Arab regime.’…
“Today I have a message for the people of Lebanon: All the world is witnessing your great movement of conscience. Lebanon’s future belongs in your hands, and by your courage, Lebanon’s future will be in your hands. The American people are on your side. Millions across the earth are on your side. The momentum of freedom is on your side, and freedom will prevail in Lebanon.”
And that was before the elections!
>>>>>>
things that make you go hmmmmm.
Alan Bisbort 46 - great LTE!
Looseheadprop - do you have a problem with creating a “precedent” where extremely wealthy candidates are encouraged to divest their investments in companies that have interests opposed to the values expressed in their campaign?
Because I don’t.
Even a less wealthy candidate can divest and put the money elsewhere. Lamont is rich enough to give it to Iraq war veterans, so he should, that is a good idea.
If you think that poor candidates will one day be forced to divest their holdings in a particular company, and be forced to GIVE IT AWAY, then I think you are wrong in your prediction. And if you believe that we are moving toward a situation where candidates are simply forced to divest companies that represent opposing values, allowing them to keep the money or invest it elsewhere - I say fine, what is the problem here?
In that Grandma J, you and I are in perfect agreement.
I still think the easiest, fastest and most effective way to stop this crap is the offer to create a blind trust. Cost’s him almost nothing, actually is related to not having him have a conflict of interest based on his investments and is fair and can be done by future candidates w/o harm to their own financial life.
Simple, fast, clean easy–and the best part, it only happens if he wins because otherwise it is not relevant
Zergle,
Turkey is not a member of the EU. It is only at the very beginning of the entrance process and it may be ten or twenty years before it is allowed in, if then given European xenophobia.
Looseheadprop at 106.
I disagree - the easiest and most symbolically powerful way to proceed is to divest the money from Halliburton and give it to the veterans.
It is really the only way to go that looks right and makes sense to the public.
Truly an elegant solution, GrandmaJ. Kudos again.
However Lamont divests (and I’m sure he will) I pray he does it from a position of strength and not from a defensive posture. I’m sure his campaign is working on the right approach as we speak.