(Update: Maura has a blog post about this up at MLN: "Apparently, some Lieberman staffers told reporters who were talking to me that I was a Lamont campaign plant, which is completely untrue." Lying wankers. Joe owes Maura an apology.)
So far the local Connecticut press has been quite insightful about their coverage of the Lamont/Lieberman race. But today, News Channel 8 did a piece that both managed to suggest that people asking Joe polite but uncomfortable questions at the Stamford event were working for Ned Lamont (and characterizing this as "harassment"), and completely failed to mention that the event was scheduled around Joe Biden, who never showed. (Video courtesy the reliably amazing Spazeboy.)
I know the two people they interviewed -- Maura and Edward -- and neither work for the Lamont campaign. They're both local people who care passionately about the outcome of this race and it was completely churlish of Lieberman to suggest that they worked for Ned. But that is the feces-flinging style Lieberman has adopted for this campaign. It's who he is.
I was on Colin McEnroe's show today and I thought he had a very good insight. He agreed that Ned would not be doing nearly so well if the Lieberman campaign were not making egregious mistakes at every turn. I asked why he thought this was happening, because clearly Joe is not stupid and did not get this far by hiring stupid people. He said no, Joe's campaign people were very smart, but that they were collectively reducing each others' IQs because they were thinking with their emotions and not their heads.
They are all evidently of the opinion that a terrible thing is being done to a great man, much like Holy Joe himself. Which is really pretty remarkable when you think about it -- this "terrible thing" called a primary challenge actually happens all the time, and Tom Swam is hardly Lee Atwater. But they have convinced themselves that it is so (pick up Bobo Brooks' righteous indignation and you'll get the general idea) and everything else proceeds from this delusion.
Political fiascos ensue. Praise the Lord.
Meanwhile, on the non-mistake side of the equation, there is more Hillsman "fuck it, let's go for it" commercial inspiration here. It is really hard not to like Ned in spite of his karaoke stylings, and it's nice of cranky, angry Lieberman to give him the opportunity to take advantage of that.
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Fitz!
Jane!
Ned!
Roots!
Jane,
Any news, rumors, inside scuttlebutt on post-debate polling that you can share with us?
Watched the vid — Lieberman is toast. Check out the fronting pics of Lamont and Lieberman:
Lamont is higher than Lieberman and smiling. Lieberman is below Lamont and has a wicked sour look — these media folk hate Joe.
Go, Ned.
By the way, just so everyone notices:
Jane said, “egregious.”
Mad Dogs 3 — no polling out yet as far as I know. General feeling seems to be that Lieberman is running for the November race but that might not necessarily be the result of polling so much as just more awful campaign decision making. The Biden bolt today was huge, it makes Lieberman look like a putz who’s been abandoned by everyone. Hard to think of a decent reason why that didn’t make it into the Channel 8 broadcast.
Jane, I love the new Ned ad - that kind of self-deprecating humor is very attractive to most voters, and of course it contrasts really well with angry, agitated NoMoJoe.
I did say “egregious.” On purpose ;)
Just checked back through some threads as I was waiting for this one to load (we got lotsa new traffic, ya think?), and found this too-good-not-to-share:
drhackenbush says
July 10th, 2006 at 4:39 pm
Don’t worry all, I am on my way to ct. on the 25th of july, to knock out the remaining 12 people who still are backing the lieberman. My dad still lives in orange, where I grew up, and I will be rounding up as many mishpucka as I can to get to the polls on the 8th, even if I have to buy all of them pizza at sallys, or corned beef sandwiches at that deli in amityville, which I forget the name. See you then, give em hell ned!
Roar, drhackenbush — WOWF!
If Joe keeps this up, he won’t be invited back to Meet the Press for Easter Sunday with the clerics.
By the by, the goofy Lamont ads are directly out of the VERY successful Wellstone first campaign playbook. And everyone should know I heart Wellstone(’s memory).
Turd-hurler Joe.
Lieberman is looking more like the grinch everyday. Ned’s new ad will give people the impression that he is sincere and focused on the ISSUES! And he has a sense of humor and fair play to boot. Joe continues to come off as a whiney republican with a sense of entitlement.
Oh my! I believe I’m getting the vapors.
That questioning was totally out of line. How could she respectfully ask pointed questions of the fair Senator? Ambushed! Harassed, I say! What is the world coming to when a senator can’t abandon his party in peace?
This Sunday: Joe Lieberman appears on Feces the Nation.
YAYES 4 Spazeboy !
Great work, all around Jane. Sounds like you’re having fun!
You knew this was coming…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....earch=Wang Chung
So, once again, it becomes clear that this campaign has little to do with the people of Connecticut and everything to do with Joe’s ego, which won’t allow him to see that his views are no longer in synch with the voters; instead he is working not for the people, but to prevent his legacy from being tarnished by essentially being kicked to the curb.
Somehow, he’s gotten this whole representation thing all ass-backwards; instead of acting in the interest of the people, he thinks his interests should be the people’s and they should be lining up behind him.
I see no indication that he will be able to pull his head out of his ass in time to right the sinking ship - I simply do not believe he is capable of changing course, and will stick with a bad plan until it runs over him.
I would be curious to know how the independents are polling, as they represent the largest voting bloc in CT, and are, I believe the reason why - up until now - they show that Joe would beat Ned in a three-way race. I just find it hard to believe that if this is your basic true-blue state, that it would still go to Lieberman.
Jane - what little I heard on the radio today was great - you have a wonderful “radio voice.”
Hope the pups are feeling more, um, “regular.”
Jane,
It is once again time to tell you how much I respect you and am — deeply — envious of (and embarrassed by) your willingness to go to Conn. and do the right thing. There are always so many reasons to put off such a move. I have made them all in my own mind, fer sure.
I really really admire you. And admiring people is not what I am generally known for.
I wish we could get what questions they asked which made Lieberman think they worked for Lamont.
Geez, doesn’t Joe have some security goons to rough those pesky folks up a bit?
Any word on whether Boxer’s had any second thoughts about supporting the CT-Lieberman party?
OT….but if you haven’t seen Olbermans interview with john Dean from tonights Countdown…IT IS A MUST…all I can say is WOW…it repeats at 12am ET and tomm. at 9am ET. Dean gives the Neo-Cons a ROYAL SLAPDOWN….I also think I will get his new book.
Clutch them pearls and put on a new, improved campaign button!
;>)
Cancer Cures, that was Maura’s one question — what you see is what Joe got.
so Biden played Lucy to Lieberman’s Charlie Brown (whisking away the football just prior to the kick)
I’m a bit surprised Fleeberman (Fleaberman?) didn’t call it the Neo-Conn Party…
Perhaps Joe Biden is now singing a slight variation of the old Peter, Paul, and Mary song:
Here’s the link for sending an email to New Channel 8.
http://www.wtnh.com/Global/cat.....=menu29_14
Here’s the email I sent: Since when is a voter asking a legitimate political question “harassment”? The voter in question asked Senator Lieberman why he won’t support the winner of the Democratic primary if he loses. It’s a legitimate question, one that the media should be asking. Is he a Democrat, or is he an Independent? I’m not allowed to check off both when I register. Neither should Senator Lieberman.
It’s unfair of you to characterize this woman’s question as “political harassment” of Senator Lieberman. Democrats want to know why he’s putting himself before the party. That’s a legitimate question. You shouldn’t be putting your finger on the scale by taking Senator Lieberman’s side here.
I hope you will cover the race more objectively in the future. Thank you.
Boxer will miss her flight from Marin.
immanentize 19 — thanks, the feeling is mutual ;)
truth 29 — great email.
No Mo Joe
Time for Monday night’s guilty pleasure…”Hell’s Kitchen.” Would love to see Gordon Ramsey have at Joe - he’d last about 6 and a half seconds…
back later!
immanentize 11 — good call, Hillsman did those Wellstone ads.
Somebody Nutmeg, please clarify this for me. Did Joe register his “party” today for the primary, for the general, or for both?
Because if “Connecticut for Lieberman” is to be his line on the August ballot, hasn’t he just conceded the Dem primary and rendered it moot?
with Cut’n Run Joe actually forming a 3rd political party expressly to run against the Democratic nominee, it’ll be even more difficult for other Democrats to back him (such as Boxer)
tee hee
everyone knows I’m not a big fan of joe mauseum
but really Jane, so Joe believed these were plants from Lamont and they weren’t
it does look like they are from firedoglake though, and we are actually part of the lamont campaign.
I hate to say it but it looks to me like Joe’s instincts here are correct
Meanwhile, some very disturbing news. . .
The question for Lieberman’s next appearance is if he plans to vet the crowds before coming out in public, like his pal George does.
everyone knows I’m not a big fan of joe mauseum
but really Jane, so Joe believed these were plants from Lamont and they weren’t
it does look like they are from firedoglake though, and we are actually part of the lamont campaign.
I hate to say it but it looks to me like Joe’s instincts here are correct
My problem with it is the fundamental assumption that no-one would ever come up with difficult questions for Joe without Ned paying them to.
Kinda ironic, really…
Jane at 35,
Well, Hillsman maintains his humor and regular-guy-wants-to-represent-YOU touch. Good on him and good for patterning his ad campaign on the regular guy versus the crotchety gas bag model.
IRONY ALERT: Lieberman got his seat by making the same moves Ned is currently making. Couldn’t old Joe see it coming?!
Hmmm, DarkBlack, isn’t there a Petticoat Junction idea here? “And there’s Uncle Joe, he’s a movin’ kinda slow….”
Or am I just an old fart?
I wonder if maybe it was Lieberman who suggested to Biden that he miss that train? Maybe BoJo didn’t want his face in the picture when the media swarmed all over Biden about those Indian 7/11 clerks. Particularly when BoJo is trying to run on his “I used to march for civil rights” thang. Better to have Biden slink into town a bit later for a fundraiser with no press. Just sayin’.
David E. I promise never to open one of your links without more explanation. Will others take the pledge?
I am so intrigued by who actually registered and owns the www.connecticutforlieberman.com domains … Tucows sold it but the owner is anonymous … I have a bookmark in my browser already and I check that new domain hourly … I so hope one of “us” owns it !
I bought www.whoisjoelieberman.com and have it forwarded to Ned’s site … somebody else bought (during the debate) www.whoisnedlamont.com and forwarded it to Ned’s site too …
David E, we’re a little wary of your blind links now (especially folks who might be on “work” computers subject to “Mrs. Grundy software,” as Hypatia put it), so maybe you might supply a bit more description than that, eh? Prolly get more response thetaway.
Fucking wankers- Lieberman & the local news. The woman said she would support Holy Joe 100% if he won the brimary. How is that harassment?
At the risk of being redundant, I’m reposting a comment from the last thread that’s actually more relevant to this one.
…Switching to NoJoe, did anybody see the NYT piece on Joe a few weeks ago that reported only 8% of Connecticut Dems approve of Bush’s handling of Iraq — which means that 92% of the state’s Dems disapprove.
Yet, a post-debate Boston Globe online article quotes Lieberman as saying he hopes voters will “respect his views.”
Huh???
Whatever happened to respecting — and reflecting — the views of the people who put you in office?
What’s happening to Joe (and staff) is what happens to anyone who becomes a repug. You abandon reason. You have to.
Emotion is a big part of politics for most. The thugs are taking that road to its farthest reaches, because the light of day (when it is allowed into the mind) reveals that there is no shoulder, bed, or road to their road.
imm 44, I just did.
BarbaraB, I think that is a good political instinct — of someone who is winning. Joe cannot afford to piss off Biden, who has a lot more Senate esteem and power than Joe. Further, Lieberman’s civil rights creds are ancient!! No one in Connecticut thinks of Joe as a soldier in the war on poverty.
David E. I promise never to open one of your links without more explanation. Will others take the pledge?
I only *heard* about the infamous link, and had pretty much decided that very thing.
puppethead 40 — that was a vetted crowd. It was RSVP only.
EDITED BY REQUEST OF COMMENTER
*ilson45 — you’re the bomb.
Lynne Cheney and Joe Lieberman have been trying to get FDL to put Parental Warnings on Ehrenstein’s links.
As a reviewer however, this link is work-safe and saddening …
I’d think that the most vulnerable group for Ned would be those nice, don’t-like-to-be-disagreeable people who, while disagreeing with HoJo on the war, believe that he’s been pretty good on everything else - - because Joe told them so. And they want to be fair.
So, I’d like to see an ad that says something like:
For those of you who think Joe Lieberman has been pretty good on some issues that matter to Connecticut, I want to tell you that you don’t have to settle for a Senator who only supports part of what Connecticut folks care about.
You can have a Senator who’s strong on the environment, strong on building jobs in CT, strong on Congressional oversight, strong on education AND who’s Right on the War and on access to health care for all our people.
Connecticut, you don’t have to settle for half-measures.
With Ned Lamont, you can have a Senator who supports ALL the issues that people in Connecticut care about.
Ned Lamont: He’s on YOUR side - - all the time.
As for WTNH.com, they also have a blog — don’t know if it’s open to comments. You might also want to try mark.davis@wtnh.com — that’s the reporter, and if I remember right, that’s how they do their company e-mail — you could browse the site and see the format. Mark and Joe go way back.
Before I sign off for the night, this is the last message to appear in my in-box — no doubt sent to all loyal dems since I am no friend…
>>>>>>>>>
Dear Friends,
There has been a lot of news this past week. I was home for the Fourth of July recess and was campaigning all week. It was good to be home! I had the privilege of marching in town parades throughout the state. The campaign and I went everywhere from Willimantic to New London, Middletown, Torrington, New Britain and Bridgeport.
As you may have seen, I debated Ned Lamont on WVIT NBC 30. I was happy to have the opportunity to defend my record, which Ned has consistently distorted. It was interesting to see Ned once again waffle on his position on Iraq.
The day after the debate, last Friday, our campaign released a new TV ad called “Bumper Sticker.” The ad parodies one of Ned’s attack ads. We released another ad this weekend that clarifies how Ned has distorted my voting record. You can view both ads on the campaign web site www.Joe2006.com. If you haven’t had the opportunity to explore the web site yet, please visit it. We update it regularly. You can view photos, videos and get all the latest news!
I thank you for your support. I look forward to representing you for the next six years and being your Democratic candidate for the November 06’ election.
Sincerely,
Joe Lieberman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Jane,
Im thinking what is Boxer thinking right now.
Administrative Contact:
Fink, Neal
Their site is… less than informative.
EDITED BY SITE OWNER: Same as above.
Lotus: since he already decided to run as an Indep., it’s moot anyway.
Im thinking what is Boxer thinking right now.
“Do I really want to line up to the right of Joe Biden?”
Immanitize 44
I’ll take that pledge!
immanentize @ 42:
Such a gem of Americana should be used in a broader context, unless the Edgar Buchanan character is isolated…It will bear some ’studyin”.
;>)
Joe’s website — more info.
http://www.propelvent.com/
“creative solutions for an interactive world.”
You want disturbing? Josh Marshall at TPM has all the disturbing you could want, short of the graphic images themselves:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....php#008992
And Joe’s feelings were hurt today?
I should only hope that someday he and his chicken hawk pals would be compelled to confront what they’ve unleashed.
Words haven’t been coined to express my contempt for the lot of them.
Oh, and here’s more evidence of how HoJo saved the state at the sub-base — more layoffs
http://www.norwichbulletin.com.....1/60710007
lemon Pledge!
me to me — they are absolutely not from FDL. I just met them. They’re CT bloggers. What evidence do you have to even say such a thing?
newtonusr @ 17:
You can get the auto-link to work if you replace every space in the URL with , as:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....earch=Wang Chung
Spaces are illegal in web addresses.
Darkblack = the most “ut.” Isolation? I suggest a good nap.
Anne sez: So, once again, it becomes clear that this campaign has little to do with the people of Connecticut and everything to do with Joe’s ego…
Hear Hear. Aren’t the Connecticut voters to be consulted in this? DSCC, butt out. I was very pleased to hear Ms. Hillary say that it’s up to Connecticutians (…ers? …ettes?)to decide who will be their Senator. Mr. This-is-my-seat Leiberman, WATB, indeed.
Leslie in CA, left you a reply below, in the EPU zone.
lina 61, WE know that, but doesn’t the state party know it boldface now too? And shouldn’t they cancel their primary, then use that money and energy more productively?
And BTW, we are NOT part of the Lamont campaign. Not even remotely.
Jane, just want to say thank you to you and everyone who took on Leiberman. I have been thinking about Iran, and I think Leiberman’s troubles may very well give pause to the war party. Lives may be saved by all this.
My problem with it is the fundamental assumption that no-one would ever come up with difficult questions for Joe without Ned paying them to.
Eli — exactly.
OK, so percent-sign-20 gets eaten by the site. Never mind. Could someone delete these comments?
Neal Fink is a quiet, unassuming, intelligent guy who manages to pull off some amazingly brilliant moves, almost always under the radar. He’s a great guy.
And he’s one of us. (hee-hee)
Jane, you mean supporters who are not paid and not members of volunteer campaign staff are not part of the campaign? You mean citizens can work freely for candidates and causes they believe in as they choose? You meen we allegedly enjoy freedom of speech and association? You mean you’re a blogofascist?
Ruth Marcus from the W-Post is under the impression Lieberman won the debate because he mentioned his length of service.
lotus 73 — That’s been my feeling all along since Joe announced his Indep. aspirations. If you’ve got a Dem, a Repub. and an Independent, why not go ahead and have the general election? Save a lot of time, energy and $$$.
To be fair to News Ate, they did give someone an awesome rebuttal to close the sgement.
The Joe-sen one…endorsed by the CM party (Coulter-Malkin).
Well, I follow the SF Giants and root for them to win. I even contribute money, via attending a game or two per year and buying $7 beer and garlic fries. Yet, for some reason, that doesn’t make me a part of the team. hmmmmm…
you said you knew them, not you just met them Jane
I opologize for the inferance, but the way you wrote that surely looked like tou;ve known them and if you did know them then they surely read your blog
I misunderstood your post and opologizre
CT Bob just made my day.
CT Bob, I’d love to know your theory on my question at 36/73 ^ .
Oops- sorry & thanks for cleaning that up. SO one of the good guys owns CONNECTICUTFORLIEBERMAN.COM & org & net.
Neil- sorry I slipped up
“Lieberman, party of one, you’re table’s ready…!”
We’ve come so far from respect for the individual citizen. Anyone with an opinion or a question that suggests a position is reflexively labeled.
Perish the thought that a free, independent, individual citizen might question the established authority!
You know, “they” may be even more scared of “us” than anybody has guessed.
punaise - how are the garlic fries?
Go Jane, your on the ground reporting has been outstanding. I have been doing my part to introduce Ned to the unaware, although my mom pissed me off with the “oh he’s a millionaire” deal. I responded with “do you think Lieberman drives a Ford and lives in Bridgeport?” No rebuttal.
If Ned can pull this off, the seismic shift will be awesome, even more so than Tester or Webb.
from what I can tell by Google, the CT4Joe URLs are in very good hands. Just how totally incompetent are the LieberConsultants ? are they planning to give out matchbooks with connecticutforlieberman covers?
I had a friend who always complained that police cars had the backwards slogan “to protect and to serve” on them, when he felt it should be “to serve and to protect” because police are supposed to be there for the community first and foremost.
Setting aside the ego thing, Lieberman’s party of one is also backwards. Shouldn’t he be there for Connecticut? “CT for Lieberman” reveals he expects the state to bend to his will, like some lord born to a higher station. Okay, so maybe the ego angle isn’t set aside.
Holy shenanigans. I just watched the Bush interchange with Suzanne Malveaux. Our nation would be better off with Corky from Life Goes On running the show.
Perhaps Malveaux should have said: “Judith Miller told me that North Korea has increased their arsenal.”
-GSD
we are NOT part of the Lamont campaign. Not even remotely.
This is so worth repeating (at least for me) that I repeat it. Lamont is a good candidate, but in no way will I claim him as “MY” candidate. Representative democracy is all about picking the best of many (sadly often the better of many not-so-good). The thing about the leftosphere, which the media does not get (because it does not mirror the right-created structures) is that is is truly an independent, liberty-based space. It is Democratic biased, but not Democraticparty obeisant.
Imm 51 — Good points. Something strange is sure going on, though. I didn’t say anyone in Conn. was buying BoJo as a civil rights activist, any more than they’re buying him as a JFK Democrat — but he’s still trying to sell it. And really, at this point, neither Biden nor Lieberman can afford to piss each other off. BoJo is still the favorite to win in November, although I think those polls will change. And Biden has wanted to be President for decades. Eventually maybe we’ll find out what really went on behind the scenes. The one thing I’m pretty sure of is that Biden didn’t actually miss that train — unless he missed it because the dog ate his homework. *g*
lina - how are the garlic fries?
they used to be great, now they’re kind of ho hum. better to get them at Gordron Biersch Brewery / Restaurant, the originator of the local variety. regardless, they (ahem) stay with you for a while…
puppethead @ 93 — good call.
Why didn’t Odious Joe call it the Lieberman for Lieberman party?
He can still use the old “Joe” signs with the O that looks like an asshole.
-GSD
love the bullseye Ned ad - charming and no mistaking the point
“are they planning to give out matchbooks with connecticutforlieberman covers?”
let’s consult the Liebermaus guide, shall we …
http://www.flash.net/~honchie/.....opbook.jpg
Regarding election rules in CT:
Joe missed the deadline to register as a Republican well before the May convention. He assumed that Ned wouldn’t be a credible threat.
He is locked into the primary as a Democrat only; if he wants to go indie, he’d have to sit out the Aug. 8th primary.
His ONLY options, and this is why he’s got them covered, is to run in the primary as a Dem, and when he loses, he can run as a 3rd party candidate in Nov. That’s it.
*ilson - are they planning to give out matchbooks with connecticutforlieberman covers?
that would be appropriate for the Lieber-flame-out that we are witnessing
Linda @ 89
Got just the painting for it by Delacroix
*ilson@92-Certainly not condoms that say “Lieberman for Senate?” Nah, they would probably decide to leak in order to be “pro family”
I’m a bit surprised Fleeberman (Fleaberman?) didn’t call it the Neo-Conn Party…
perfect
Delacroix?? BARE TITS??? omigawd omigawd omigawd
fever swamps of obscenity !
Thanks for that clarification, CT Bob. This afternoon, somebody (egregious?) posted the ballot order as
Dem
Rep
Concerned Citizens
Libertarian
Lieberman
and I wanted to be sure that’s for Nov, not Aug.
scarbow coming up with somethin’ bout poodles…
C’est Marianne, *ilson!
Forget the breasts, who is that poor dead fellow without pants? It is an allegory, no?
Jane- can you kill #54 since we know it about a good guy?
bear tits? where?
I dont care what her name is! Decent women dont go running around with their tits hanging out (unless they are performing at the SuperBowl)
Lynne Cheney and Joe Lieberman will take care of that taxpayer-funded obscenity right away ! For that matter, where’s Tipper Gore and Jesse Helms ?
Ask Tai Shan, pun.
It’s ironic that two of the most pious and self-serving religious men in America, Bush and Lieberman, are largely responsible for the people of Iraq, having to use fake ID’s, to hide their religion, in order to survive the civil war started by America. So this is the freedom Lieberman has been talking-up for the Iraqi’s.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13806135/
No one said anything about “bear tits”, the closest anyone came to that was calling Odious Joe Lieberman a “Grizzly boob”.
-GSD
me to me — didn’t mean to jump all over you but that kind of stuff is like typhoid, it gets spread rather quickly. I’m a partisan, I want Ned Lamont to win this race, but I have absolutely no association with his campaign. Neither does this blog. And I’ve been reading — and enjoying — the efforts of local bloggers like CT Bob (YAY!!! BOB’S BACK!!!) since this race started. It’s been a pleasure to meet them and get to know them here in CT.
Bear tits? are we getting dangerously close to Scooter Kabuki here?
Tom Durkin — done.
lotus - Ask Tai Shan, pun.
lotus, there you go again: panda ring to the base.
Naw, pun, he’s the only one of the base that’s that cute.
Nothing like Rwanda style ethnic cleansing going on in a nation with 130,000 US troops keeping things safe.
I am getting weary reading about the horror in Iraq and even wearier at the apologists and ignorers of said horrors.
Oh yeah, Al Qaeda is claiming that the Shiite Iranians want nukes to wipe out the Sunnis.
Congratulations G-Dub and Deadeye Dick on the pending regional conflagration.
Heckuva job.
-GSD
Scooter Bukakke? That’s what Rummy will do to you.
-GSD
Well, I figured Liberty Leading the People was much more a propos than the Third of May
OT, there’s an amazing pic on NYT’s homepage right now.
lotus, you have the eye of a poet….
The shi_ is getting pretty deep for Joey bag o donuts.
Time for him to buy a couple pairs o manpris.
Kind imm.