Login HereWatch Joe not answer the question about his cut-and-run candidacy (video by Spazeboy at his Debate Video Headquarters)
Lieberman came off as a rude Republican asshole, with nothing in the tank but personal attacks.
Biggest lies:
1. The Neverending War -- as Stoller (who is sitting right behind me, this is a little weird) writes on MyDD, Lieberman's claims that he doesn't support an open-ended military commitment in Iraq is total bunk. Lieberman, from 4/20/03:
"We may, over the long term, with the consent of the new Iraqi government, establish some permanent bases in Iraq. And wouldn't that be a dramatic change, where we have an allied government there in Iraq, at the center of the Middle East, where we may have not a permanent police presence, but one or another military base that's working in cooperation with the government there?"
2. Lieberman claimed to be a great supporter of women's rights. I think we all know what crap that is. Lieberman invoked his endorsement by Planned Parenthood, but the fact is that Susan Yelon, head of CT-Planned Parenthood, voted as a delegate for Lamont at the State Democratic Convention. Obviously the DC addiction to cocktail weenies takes into account what is going on in the state not at all.
3. Lieberman opposed privatizing Social Security? Ho-ho-ho:
Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., is undecided about the concept of using payroll taxes to fund private Social Security accounts, bringing to three the known number of Senate Democrats who have yet to publicly rule out the idea. President Bush has made the accounts the centerpiece of his domestic agenda. But other than Rep. Allen Boyd of Florida, no congressional Democrats have formally signed on. While Lieberman has concerns about the idea, he is continuing to study it while hoping for more details on Social Security from the president, a Lieberman aide said today. "He's still in a listening and learning stage and is keeping an open mind, but he does have concerns about private accounts as carve-outs that would potentially undermine the guaranteed minimum benefit and worsen our fiscal health and debt load," a Lieberman aide said today.
Feel free to document your own atrocities in the comments.
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NED!
NED
wow, that felt good!
Ned focused on issues, Joe focused on attacks.
GO NED!
Rape Gurney got the Rove memo - attack, attack attack
posted on the discussion at nbe30. I missed most of the debate due to computer problems, but that “just folks” stuff at the end from Joe was just nasty.
Geeze! Server overload.
This isn’t Faux News, SIR!
KA-BAM!!!
What’s up with the tax return question, and why did Ned duck it?
Lieberman was an ass. He got slammed on Hardball, their online poll, and (natch) Olbermann. Jane nailed it with “churlish.” Constant interruptions, thinly disguised contempt, thin-skinned arrogance and a massive sense of entitlement.
Ned took it to him, but looked nervous. Got in a couple killer zingers, though.
Apparently Joe believes he can do a better job for the people of Connecticut…
Why couldn’t he attack Cheney like that 6 years ago?
I’ve seen Ned be more, impressive, but as usual, Joe did not disappoint!
Truth to power!
Ned, Colbert, and FDL!!
Someone over in the Kos comments put it well…
“Lieberman is a pit bull to Democrats and a pussycat to Republicans.”
That placement of the play button over Joe`s mouth (his pacifier ?) is inspired
NedMentum w/Rootz !
“There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.” - Niccol Machiavelli
The media is comparing Lieberman to Reagan with his “There he goes again” response. Lieberman just positioned himself solidly as a non-progressive with every intention of taking the moderate vote in November. Wouldn’t it be far easier for Joe to just welcome Lamont’s challenge as a healthy part of democracy?
Aside from his suit not fitting, Lamont was great. He danced with the girl who brought him: progressive values and anger over Lieberman’s ties to Bush. More than anything, Lamont showed himself to be a candidate of the people.
Now is the time to get Lieberman to pick August or November. By debating Lamont, Lieberman is engaged in the August campaign and he should be forced to explain why he gets to run in November at every turn.
tommy yum (9),
I don’t think Ned did duck the tax return question (even though Joe insisted he did). Ned said that “Annie & Ned Lamont” had turned over a huge stack of requested documents, including financials (which would probably include tax returns, one would think).
Someone raised a good point in the last thread: Ned did NOT suck. He survived without looking like an ignoramous. There were no Dan Quale moments. And that’s fine. All a challenger has to do against the incumbent (especially an unpopular incumbent like Joenertia) is survive.
“Lieberman is a pit bull to Democrats and a pussycat to Republicans.”
It’s tough love, don’tchaknow.
I tuned in late (found it in time thank god!) but I didn’t think Ned did bad at all.
Voters will not give Holy Joe any credit for the pork stuff, which he beat like a dead horse the whole hour. Most people know any congresscritter will do that. Also it sounded like a major bribe from Camp Desperation.
Why couldn’t he attack Cheney like that 6 years ago?
Because Rove wasn’t helping him 6 years ago.
Ned stumbled a bit, but Joe was 100% braggadoccio and smear. And that, in my opinion, is a major turn-off. His whiney tone was really just too much to bear. I think Americans are tired of the do-nothing Congress, and Ned seemed like a breath of fresh air in comparison.
my general post debate sense is that Ned was trying to get the issues out there and Joe spent most of his time trying to attack Ned…
doesn’t work well for Joe…
I totally hate to say it, but putz came across far more relaxed and poised. Ned needs to do something about his bug-eyes. Substance doesn’t matter - tv does.
Ned looks ABSOLUTELY ready for primetime! Joe-nertia just comes across as desperate & whiny.
Okay. Joe’s scared. Didn’t see it the first time around, but there it is.
I have real issues with the moderator tonight. She wasn’t ready for Joe. Like so many D.C. media folks, she can’t help but defer to “power.”
Two GLARING Lamont ommissions:
1. I believe Lieberman voted for both W SCOTUS nominees (if not, skip to #2). SCOTUS just saved US civil liberties. With a 3rd W appointment, Hamden would have come out the other way. Lamont should have crucified Lieberman on this.
2. Lamont should have said that he created X number of high paying jobs in CT while Liberman was keeping his seat warm in DS as CT was losing high paying jobs.
I’m surprised! In the post-debate analysis, Noron & the MSNBC commentator (watzis name?) both sounded impressed with Ned’s debate performance, and much less so with HoJo’s…
Why couldn’t he attack Cheney like that 6 years ago?
Because Rove wasn’t helping him 6 years ago.
Or maybe they just had more common ground.
DONATE - DONATE - DONATE
Can someone post a volunteer / contribute link in the comments? I just donated $20 off a link I found on DK. Let’s everyone donate at least $5 (or more if you can) — it will send quite a message to the media if Ned gets an immediate surge of donations.
Okay, I admit I posted this on the other thread, but…
Aargh! Who agreed to that set and the location of the moderator? Ned trapped in the middle, having to look left and right, while Joe relaxes and can have Ned and the moderator in his sight lines simultaneously? Need some theater pros on this team…
Passed the TV station with LieberYouth waving their signs and looking on the whole a bit Moonie.
Resist the urge to attack Lieberman supporters, you will need them in another month. Remember that you have to win this primary in such a way that will enable you to win the general. That means you will need to reach out to the folks you now characterize as Lieberman trolls. Some people prefer Lieberman, maybe they shouldn’t, but they do. You will need them in the near future. Don’t burn your bridges.
what a smarmy-ass rude,interupting condescending putz. Someone at the end of the last thread noted the contrast between attack-dog Shmoe when debating a Democrat, versus ass-kissy Shmoe, when cupping Cheney’s balls in the ‘04 debate. Shmoe needs to be asked why he hates Democrats, but loves his Rethuglican masters.
Is another debate scheduled? Ned will have gained confidence from this experience, and will come off stronger; Shmoe will just continue to be his vile self.
I didn’t like Joe’s use of the term liberal democrats when refering to Ned’s support. It’s like he was doing what Repugs do when they refer to liberals.
Mike,
He ducked it. Would have taken two seconds to say “I’ll do it” or “I did it.”
I think Joe beat himself on this one. Ned looked green–which is refreshing. There’s clearly no love loss between the two.
I think Ned has got his work cut out for him. He is seemingly running on energy conservation and universal health care along with bringing home the troops against a three term Senator with seniority and a moderate to left of center voting record.
To be sure I would love to see Lieberman retired from the Senate but there are many other pretend Democrats with a much worse voting record so it would have been nice to see something really special from Lamont.
I thought Lamont should have worked harder to establish his successful business record. How do you come from a small local political post to running for the Senate?
I wish him luck but I am not sure this performance did it for him.
I’m surprised! In the post-debate analysis, Noron & the MSNBC commentator (watzis name?) both sounded impressed with Ned’s debate performance, and much less so with HoJo’s…
Although they did kinda dismiss the online poll as being distorted by us Wacky Technosavvy Netroots Fanatics.
Um, does Craig Crawford kinda creep anyone else out?
Ned did a kind of rope a dope worthy of Ali. First twenty minutes he let Joe jab and punch, land a few blows. Them opened up and wailed on Joe!
What is the narrative here? I think rather than score debate points the important thing is the story. I think it’s Mr. Smith goes to Washington.
oops, typo, ‘00 debate, duh.
Argh! EPU’d again:
I’d like to see a commercial with Joe Liebermanss voice cut throughout saying “Who is Ned Lamont?” (he did sound pretty clueless) and with different clips showing just who Ned Lamont is: working with kids, growing a business, standing up for women’s rights, etc. — ending with Ned Lamont saying “I’m Ned Lamont, and I approve this message.”
Bonnie,
They–not necessarily Lamont’s people–wanted Ned on the left of the screen.
For those of you who thought Ned came across on TV as very nervous, the audio certainly didn’t reveal that.
I thought Lieberman at times was almost incoherent - he kept trying to paint Ned as one thing, and in the same breath asked “Who is Ned Lamont?” And he did that repeatedly. Well, if you have to keep asking that question, pardon me if I don’t take too much stock in your attempts to define him.
The moderating was terrible - Joe came across as though he were entitled to run right over and through Ned’s time and Ned’s comments.
I wish Ned had reminded the voters that he offered to put a spending cap on the campaign and Lieberman turned him down…seems like if Joe were really running so far behind in the money race, he’d have grabbed at that offer.
I think Ned did a great job against a sitting Senator. Much applause!!!
Joe did his Karl Rove-approved attack strategy and played to the general election voters. (remember, he’s running as an Independent). I don’t think it helps him with Democrats.
Ned did quite well for himself. Probably will pull even in the polls with Joe. He did an admirable job of fending off Joe’s attack strategy and got the discussion back to real issues. The first part of his answer on immigration was great. Talking about the high school kids (the second part) he should have left unsaid.
And the only major groaner was the jimmy carter sweater reference.
All in all, a good performance for Ned.
Joe is tired and stale, but I’m not sure how he sells. I would think people would be sick of that shit by now.
Whatta I know.
Attacking WORKS, people, sick but true. Lieberwhore was relentless, even if a lying sack of shit. Until we out-relentless them, we lose.
Why couldn’t he attack Cheney like that 6 years ago?
Same reasons sharks don’t eat attorneys.
Professional courtesy.
I think one of the most offensive things Joe said was his explanation of his Plan B, saying that Lamont couldn’t beat the Republican, whose poll numbers are utterly dismal, even head-to-head with Ned before anyone knew who Ned was.
On the tax returns issue: all candidates for federal office have to submit financial reports detailing their income, property, and stocks. It’s a pretty broad document and you can see Lieberman’s on opensecrets.org. It’s distinct from a tax return, though, which I don’t believe Lamont has released publicly.
Lamont is rich, duh. He’s also grassrootsy. There’s no conflict between them.
Ned was smart to include the line about Joe telling rape victims to just “take a short drive” to the next non-Catholic hospital. But I wish he’d rebutted Joe’s talking point about Planned parenthood supporting him because he’s strong on choice. Shoulda brought up the differnece between the CT offices of Planned Parenthood and NARAL and the national ones. Also, I wish Ned had talked about Joe’s support for Alito, and how predictably fascist Alito has turned out to be in his short time on the SCOTUS.
But, I’m being picky-unish here, because it’s pretty hard to make legitimate points when your blowhard opponent keeps interrupting you!
AM i the only one who thinks the redundant video/email questions from CT voters was lame?
http://www.actblue.com/page/firedoglake
Sorry for the hit and run comment guys, but I’m cranking out a shitload of videos.
I just wanted to spread the word here that I have the closing statements and the closing questions videos online at the local video HQ post on my site.
http://www.spazeboy.net/2006/0.....-video-hq/
grandmatoo– John Harwood of the WSJ.
Eli, meaning we know how to send internets through the pipes?
Meanwhile, I think this debate is a start, not an end in itself. Take Joe’s Social Security remarks, and make a commercial with his actual record. Take his claim of standing up to Bush (yeah right), and combine it with the Kiss. etc.
Good God, Lieberman is a raging asshole. That’s the one clear thing that came across for me: major, total, raging asshole. And Ned, whatever his little stumbles, comes across as a really good guy.
Some here are giving Joe WAY too much credit. Remember that people hate politicians . . .
Another underlying thread of the whole thing was, it was SOOO obvious that HoJo didn’t think he should HAVE to be up there debating for the primary. He thinks the seat is his by divine right and it showed.
Ned could make hay out of that one, too.
Well, I don’t think I looked at the debate with too biased an eye because even the talking heads on Hardball seemed to get a kick out of this new comer Lamont going so far as to say that Lamont held up well in the debate. They got a huge kick out of the kiss buttons.
And we couldn’t ask better than them saying that Lieberman came off like a Repub in manner.
Frankly, I was astonished by Lieberman’s smug attacks. He did not come off like a nice man, but like a politician that had plenty of laurels to rest on, if only you all knew how great he simply is.
I don’t think that’s going to play well here in CT.
Ned started off a bit fumbly but got better. Joe stayed in his attack stance. The implicit “vote for me and I’ll bring more money thru earmarks” sounded bad and plays to the GOP’s meme of Dems being weak. He needs to be gone.
Lieberman came off as what he is: an Incumbocrat (h/t Eli). He cares about his own seat more than loyalty to his own party. He was put out by even having to show up. MSNBC said that his people were “taken aback” by the national media attention, and not prepared for it. Perhaps a little too much disinfecting sunlight, Joey?
The link on my name is the Ned-contribution page
GOD did the Carter sweater thing make me cringe. wtF you THINKING ned? good god!
1.202 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN
‘ GOES ON AND ON AND…
Prizgar:
I don’t know what you waz watchin’ but it wazn’t the debate I saw on C-span and MSNBC…both in substance ,style and the politics of appearance and presentation Lamont killed ‘im. Remember, this wasn’t on FOX this was on “mainstream media” and the strategic audience was Connectecutt Democrats and independants…but the larger, national audience jest made a decision on who Democrats are and what the Democratic Party stands for and it ain’t Fascist Joe.
This was a resoundin’ win for progressive Democrats in the fight for party definition….Bob Schrum, your projected income jest took a big hit and the Republican’s don’t pay nearly as good fer losers!!!
KEEP THE FAITH, AFTER TANIGHT THE RATS ARE GUNNA HAFTA LEARN HOW TA SWIM!!
Eli, meaning we know how to send internets through the pipes?
*Tubes*. Sheesh. Your ignorance of advanced internet technowhatzises is embarrassing us.
The online poll for NBC Connecticut has ned winning the debate 79% to 21 for Holy Joe…with almost 3000 people voting.
msnbc poll Go! Vote! Now!
lamont moves up a point, lieb down 2: 79/19
I would like to see Joe Lieberman treat his beloved mandate Sean Hannity with such arrogance, prickishness and and aggressiveness.
Nah, that will never happen.
-GSD
why are these plebian types bothering me. that senate seat is mine, all mine. didn’t i prove it to you all when i ran for mine while demi-campaigning with al gore? it’s miiiiiiiiiiine.
nope, it isn’t, hojo.
didn’t like Joe’s use of the term liberal democrats when refering to Ned’s support.
That is a bizarre tactic to take in a Democratic primary. Most Democratic voters are going to be thinking just what’s wrong with being a liberal Democrat? That just plays into Lamont’s narrative that Lieberman is more comfortable with Republicans than Democrats.
The Joementom stops here. He’s out for himself, running as an independent. Quoting Republicans. He’s no Dick Cheney, but he’s close, just hasn’t shot anyone in the face. Besides violent video games and bashing Howard Stern, what has he done, except give away the 2000 election on Meet the Press which led us into this mess.
Oooohhh GREAT idea Linda @39!
Send it to Camp Lamont!
That just plays into Lamont’s narrative that Lieberman is more comfortable with Republicans than Democrats.
And vice versa (66% approval with CT Repubs).
Oops! Lol. Toobs!
i liveblogged it. UTI. still: i’m unhappy to report that joe looked better, and ned more like an amateur. joe said “i’ll bring jobs, i love liberal causes, you won’t release your tax returns.” ned had little to refute that.
i can’t tell you all how it pains me to say that.
eCAHNomics says
July 6th, 2006 at 5:22 pm
I think you highlighted the greatest weakness of those who prepared Ned, especially on talking points about Iraq, but also on Joe’s voting record. To me,however, those are manageable issues. Ned can demonstrate greater fluencey with those issues between now and August 8. HoJo, however, cannot grow character in a month.
Oops! Lol. Toobs!
Much better. Pipes are yesterday’s technology, used for phones and telegraphs and such. They’re not wide enough to carry internets. Then again, neither are tubes, which is why we need to upgrade to subterranean tunnels.
I find it weird that Leib actually thinks that someone challenging him for his seat is a threat and danger to that state and the Dem party.
I guess that’s one campaign strategy… I guess.
Hi Norske!
Joe was doing fairly well, during the early part of it, by issuing personal attacks against Lamont in relation to every question.
The only problem is, he’s still Joe Liebermann, defending the goddam war. No way around that. Still, for style, I give Joe one putrid little point.
But after that, he seemed to lose the thread and become repetitious, and his constant complaints about his being his own man just sounded like, “How dare anybody challenge me, it’s my seat, MINE!” I can’t possibly see how that helps him.
If I were Lamont, and if I had another debate, I would brush up on how to fight personally. The best moment of the debate was when he told Joe, “This isn’t Fox News!” That woke up everybody in the house, here, that had been snoozing through much of it.
Despite Crocker Joe-man’s constant whining, I like that Ned didn’t give in and continued to call him “Sir”.
It was like the climactic fight featured in “Cinderella Man” between Baer and Broderick:
Leobo-bear came out swinging and won a few early rounds over a less veteran opponent getting his footing. Cinderalla Man came back with a strong finish, using the veteran’s offensiveness against him to expose his percieved strength as mere boorishness meeting him with effective counterpunches to end with a flourish for a unanimous decision.
I had it 10-8 for the Connecticut Cinderella and next United States Senator… Ned LaMont.
Sharkbabe @24, I didn’t think there was anything wrong with the way ned looked. You live with the face you were born with…most of us do, anyway. “Wild-eyed”…maybe, a little. I’d be scared shit debating a sleaze bag on national tv. What came through to me was that his intent is honorable. He may not have all the answers, but he’s a good manager and knows how to surround himself with talent. He can be the best thing for Ct that’s come along in years. It’s why I keep raiding the kitty here at home and making donations. What’s good for CT will be good for the nation as well. The Common Good, yes.
katgw 07-06-2006, 7:01 PM
Every time Senator Lieberman chose to interrupt the debate and shout over Mr. Lamont, I was reminded what the real problem is… the Senator refuses to listen to Democrats, to our questions, to our answers, and our advice.
Gold from the NBC30forum board.
chicago dyke, look at it like this…Ned came off as a regular guy and Holy Joe as a professional pit bull politician…..People are tired of that…watch……Lamont is green BUT WON hands down!
Cinderellamont?
That was from the Kos comments.
my wife gasped at the end of the debate. holy joe walked right past ned and also the moderator and only chummed with the men. she screamed “FUCK HIM”. i laughed
Joe’s smug remark about Ned and his liberal democrat supporters will come back to bite him in the ass.
Reading the AP story very carefully, perhaps Marion got in front of the story. Was the story released to the AP by HoJo’s campaign to push Boxer to make a statement? There seems to me to be none from her in the article, only Marion announcing the support of colleagues Biden, Salazar, and Boxer.
TeddySanFran,
What is happening here is that in their desperation, the Lieberman campaign is playing fast and loose with the truth. From the comments I have been reading about what Boxer’s office is saying about this, this whole story came entirely from the Lieberman campaign, and the Lieberman campaign has recently been playing very fast and loose with the truth, like when they recently set up a Hartford Courant reporter who took them at their word when they told him that joe would run in November as an “independent Democrat”, which is quite prohibited by CT law -
these are desperate days for the Lieberman campaign as they struggle to grab hold of anything that will have some legs for joe. I have already posted elsewhere that the MSM must now independently verify every single thing that comes from the mouth of the Lieberman campaign, and this Boxer thing is just the latest example of that.
it’s one thing for us back-benchers to lobby for this or that detailed and nuanced response, but just imagine how difficult it must be - even with great preparation - to think on your feet under the pressure. It would have reduced me to a simpering whimpering snapped-synapse catatonia.
I didn’t think Ned looked any more nervous than Lieberman. I was surprised to see Lieberman looking down at his notes during his opening statement. Christ, that’s what rookies do. Ned is the rookie, not Joe. And Ned has fresh face appeal.
As for the attack dog stuff selling with the voters. I’m not so sure. People might have bought it with the Bush v. Kerry race. But look what it got them - four more years of Bush. Maybe some of them won’t fall for it again.
Maybe.
Chicago Dyke at 71 — Agree that Joe was more polished, which made his cheating, rude interruptions all the more jarring for me. Maybe it didn’t hit everyone else that way, but Lieberman clearly knew the terrain, and was deliberately trying to cheat his way around it — and I found that incredibly insulting.
Ned was more nervous. But I thought, for his first live tv debate and with stakes as high as they are, he acquitted himself well. He didn’t suck, or fall apart, and came across as genuine and decent and really concerned about real people’s issues.
Lieberman seemed concerned about keeping his job. And maybe that will be the difference.
Old Coastie and somebody else said:
” Ned was trying to get the issues out there and Joe spent most of his time trying to attack Ned…”
That’s page one in the Republican playbook. Also pages two through 500.
It’s fun to watch this pattern: The Dem talks about an issue, and The Repug talks about the Dem.
Every time. You could almost make a drinking game out of it.
I have never gritted my teeth so hard as when Lieberman was talking. Lieberman is such a liar.
Ned rocked!
NBC wants our opinions. There is a poll (Ned wins) and a form for writing opinoins:
http://www.nbc30.com/news/9471030/detail.html
Choosing style over substance got us Reagan and later, Little Boots. Substance is SO much more important, and I’m hoping and praying the voters of CT appreciate the difference.
On substance, Ned Lamont won, hands down. Lieberman was a bit more polished in his delivery, but who wants shiny, polished turds?
Ned did an amazing job! I thought Lieberman did OK. I might even call it a draw, were it a level playing field. (I only caught about 30 minutes of the debate).
However, Lieberman really needed a clear win to build any momentum into his campaign. That didn’t happen. Lamont held his own, and in doing so increased his name recognition and dispensed any notions of being a kook. Lieberman was not able to discredit him. That’s a pretty big victory for Lamont.
I think the C-Span break, showing the Lamont and Leiberman commercials may have helped Ned. For one thing, Leiberman’s ad is pure personal attack on Ned, and Ned’s never mentions Joe, just shows him as the regular guy who’s creating something better for the future (through the kids, his students). Also, the Ned ad showed last, giving him the last word. Leiberman’s ad totally negative, Lamont’s totally postive and forward-looking.
Sharkbabe I agree that Ned needs to be on the offensive–but so far he has been, big time, and HoJo is a sitting duck in that respect…
Just remember folks, whatever happens, we’ve already won. Everyone is paying attention to this race, and holy sh*t!! Even Joe Lieberman is protesting that he IS a Democrat and is hoisting his liberal flag!
Actually unseating HJ would be a MAJOR coup and I don’t count on it for a minute–but we’ve come very, very far already.
Anne @ 5:26 pm (#42) - Actually, I have the sound coming from a different direction than the video in this room, which creates an interesting situation. I can turn my head a little and just hear the sound. The remark I made about voice lessons in the last thread was a result of that.
Ned sounded shaky and nervous, especially at first. The butterflies kinda went away later, but he always sounded like a store owner who was doing his own TV ads, except for a few times when he clearly was either speaking from his heart or he was saying something he’s said many times.
Lieberman sounded polished most of the time. What he said didn’t always make sense, but then Rush Limbaugh rarely says anything that makes sense - he just sounds good doing it.
This isn’t necessarily bad for Lamont, but I don’t agree that he sounded better than Lieberman. If you go on radio voices, Lieberman was way ahead.
And Ned has fresh face appeal.
Or non-oatmeal face appeal…
@31
Aren’t the LieberYouth payed to be there?
The MSNBC poll just got even better:
Who won the Connecticut Senate debate? * 5597 responses
Joe Lieberman 18%
Ned Lamont 80%
It was a draw 1.9%
Lieberman said he was against an open-ended continuation of the war in Iraq.
How to avoid this?
Well, Lieberman, by refusing to advocate a timetable, leaves the decision entirely in the Bush Administration’s hands.
How non-open-ended of Lieberman.
Exactly Alice Marshall, thanks for fleshing out my thought about the term liberal democrat.
And thanks to Cozumel for the link, I just sent Ned some love.
punaise @ 86
You seem pretty fast on your feet around these parts . . .
When ole Cut ‘n Run was pulling out the old tried and tru “Flip Flop” strategy, I thought that Ned should have countered with “Why did you vote for Alito (when it counted) before you voted against him.”
BTW Leisure Guy was right!
local CT poll http://www.nbc30.com/news/9471030/detail.html
John Casper #71–
Yup, HJ’s record is going to hang round his neck like a noose til the 8th.
What Anne said at 5:26 pm!
Maybe the visual side of it (TeeVee) lent a halo of victory to Lieberman, but on lo-fi streaming audio, I’d say Lamont won this thing hands down.
And not just in the way that Kerry mopped the floor with Bush over the issues, but in a substantive, energetic, open and honest sort of way. I thought he did great.
Even Joe Lieberman is protesting that he IS a Democrat and is hoisting his liberal flag!
Is this going to force Joe to vote a little more… carefully until November, so as to not make his Republicanism quite so obvious?
punaise @87: Well said.
OH yeah, msnbc poll
Ned up a point, Joe down 80/18
Go! Vote!!
“There you go again.”
Dover B. picked that one on the last thread as something Reagan used in his debates. That is huge.
I hope the CT press feeds that to HoJo for the next month.
Lieberman was a bit more polished in his delivery, but who wants shiny, polished turds?
Beautiful. TheOtherWA wins tonight’s grassroots awards.
I went in hoping that Lieberman would repeat his pathetic debating of 2000( Cheney: I was glad to get out of big, wasteful govt. for the last 8 years and work in the private sector. Lieberman: silence. Why didn’t he say, “Yes, you worked for Halberton which made its money in contracts with the big wasteful govt. Guess, govt wasn’t so big and wasteful when it contracted with Halbertan, huh?”
But tonight Lieberman was well schooled in pushing his experience, seniority, independence, and that he votes 90% with the party. Lamont SHOULD have answered him point by point. EG Yes, you voted with the party against Alito when it didn’t make a difference and he would win with Rep. majority votes, but when it could have made a difference and you could have asserted your independence by voting to continue debate, you voted with the Repubs and some Dems to CUT OFF DEBATE.
Lamont looked like a schoolboy. He spoke of hopes and dreams trying to sound Kennedyesque, but he needed to give the 1960 line of Kennedy, “We can do better.” AND answer each of Lieberman’s major points which I stated above, DIRECTLY. LAMONT WAS NOT WELL COACHED. HE NEEDS TO BE READY WITH AMMUNITION NEXT TIME.
So I am not feeling so good tonight. Let’s hope that I am wrong in my analysis.
you would expect Joe to be more polished. he’s got 18 years experience. Ned is a novice and that works for him.
Eli 36
I generally like Craig Crawford, but he does speak exactly like Evil Uncle Chuckles, Pat Robertson.
That’s the results. To vote go here.
Didn’t read all the older threads so this may have been mentioned before. I’ll start by saying that I think Ned did well overall, gaining confidence as the debate wore on. A key of course will be the post debate media spin (hopefuly with the blogs debunking Lieberman’s BS). But the one thing that jumped out at me was that Lamont was outmaneuvered before the debate began. The way Lieberman was positioned relative to Lamont and the moderator/panel gave him a chance to look everybody in the eye at the same time. He was looking right into the camera as he was looking at Lamont and his questioner. Lamont on the other hand had to choose between Joe on his left, the camera straight ahead and the panel to his right. (OTOH, this may have accentuated the Joe’s smug and dismissive look )
Lieberman hearts Bush AND Reagan. There he goes again…
http://www.artistdirect.com/Im.....8k88f1.jpg
I haven’t been following this race closely (though I know the stakes, of course) but I watched the debate and I think Ned blew Lieberman away. The nerves, the suit, looking at the wrong camera, none of that made any difference. It really was Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.
He’s a very impressive candidate.
Ned has got to keep hammering the facts about the war - death, money and no end in sight. Joe supports it. Hang it around his neck and detonate it.
I generally like Craig Crawford, but he does speak exactly like Evil Uncle Chuckles, Pat Robertson.
It’s the nervous laughter after everything he says, it makes me uneasy.
“Feel free to document your own atrocities in the comments. “
oh, lieberman had a lot of atrocities…but did ned rebut them well? in my opnion, he was totally ineffective…holy joe ran right over him.
Ned has got to keep hammering the facts about the war - death, money and no end in sight. Joe supports it. Hang it around his neck and detonate it.
Does that play into Joe’s narrative that Lamont’s opposition is just about the war and nothing else?