
In the face of today's sad news about Jane's mom, I initially suggested to the Admin team that we declare a 24-hour moratorium on posting to show respect for the family. Christy checked with Jane and it turns out that's the absolute last thing she wants us to do. Well, Jane, we love you and our thoughts and prayers are with you at this time. And if you say carry on, then by god, that's what we'll do.
Which brings me to tonight's topic. As netroots activists, we hear a lot of talk about the importance of "reframing the arguments", and I couldn't agree more. But so few of our advocates in the public sphere seem to be taking that advice to heart. The whole "Lie and Die" thing is a nice try, Mr. Kerry, it's short and it rhymes, sure, but it is still a response to the GOP's charges of us being "cut and run" liberals. It still places us in the argument in a defensive crouch.
As long as we continue to form our strategies and sound bites around defending ourselves, the GOP will always win. They have consistently set the tone for every debate from gay marriage to the War in Iraq by arriving there first, seizing the moral high ground, and hurling accusations, which the vichy Dems seem more than willing to waste their time parrying, ducking and weaving around in a doomed effort to justify themselves to the electorate, no matter how absurd and disingenuous the accusations are. We always enter the debate on terms set by the Republicans. If we continue to do that, we will always, always lose.
Listen to me, Democrats! Never defend. Never explain. Attack, attack, attack! When a right-winger accuses you of something, back up, reframe, ignore the charges, just ATTACK. How hard can this be? Ann Coulter doesn't waste her time defending herself against our accusations. Neither does Rush Limbaugh. They launch their attacks and the terms of the debate are set from there, and once again, as liberals, we are bringing knives to a gun fight.
To whit:
A Republican says, "All you liberals are cut-and-run traitors! You don't support the troops!"
Instead of frantically beginning to tap dance and show that you're not a traitor and that you do support the troops, you fire back, "Why are you Republicans such cowards? Your leaders are all draft-dodgers who've never fired a shot at anything but a bunch of canned quails and old lawyers. You're using the troops as human shields against the midterm elections! Do you like seeing our brave men and women in uniform slaughtered and killed? Or are you just too much of a coward to face the consequences of your failed policies in Iraq? Which is it? Do you just hate the soldiers or do you hate your constituents?"
There. You have just put the burden of proof on the Repugnican that he/she isn't a coward and that they don't hate the troops. Then you set up a false dichotomy that they can't answer without looking like a fool.
Or say you're lucky enough to have squared off against Ann Coulter. (I dream of four minutes of live TV with Ann Coulter!) She says, "Liberals hate science! Liberals suck terrorist dicks! Liberals eat babies! *SQUAAAAAAAACK!! SCREEECH!! AWK!! AWK!!*"
You say, "Ann, why are you such a fascist?"
She, of course, will say, "I'M not a fascist! LIBERALS ARE FASCISTS!" (Which is exactly what she would say, trust me.)
You calmly respond, "But Ann, you advocate everything the Nazis did; internment camps, physical intimidation, silencing of media outlets, and murder. Everything the Nazi Party said about the Jews, you have said about liberals. You even look sort of like some kind of Aryan Dominatrix. You're like a Brownshirt pin-up girl."
And then sit back and watch as she goes nuclear. Now, the onus is on her to prove she's not a fascist, which is exactly what she can't do. (Cos she is.) You don't respond to charges by Ann Coulter. You attack. You treat her with all the respect and courtesy that she would treat you.
It doesn't really even matter if your accusations are true, just whether or not they're truthy. (We can play that game too.) It helps, of course, if what you're saying is true, but it's not a requirement. Study the work of Karl Rove sometime.
Republicans are cowards. They're soft. They grew up sleeping on huge billowy piles of other people's money, tucked in by their immigrant nannies, while Mumsy and Daddy were off at the The Club getting stoned on whiskey sours and arrogance. They won't have the stomach for this fight. But if we continue to equivocate, back-pedal, and sputter in frustration at the outrageousness of their assertions, we will remain the party of Juan Williams, Mara Liasson, Alan Colmes, and all the other Whiny Little Bitch liberals.
Is this clear? Any liberal pundits or Democratic strategists reading this, you hear me?
NEVER defend.
NEVER explain.
ATTACK! ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTAAAAACK!!!!
We have a reputation as a bunch of weak-kneed cowards because we keep trying to answer the charges against us and failing, because the charges simply aren't true. You can't defend yourself against baseless accusations. "Why don't liberals support the troops?" is a question like, "When did you stop beating your wife?" Unanswerable, because it issues from a set of false precepts, and any attempt to answer it is going to be like, as my brother says, "boxing a turd". And that's the number one lesson that we can take from the right wingers. They don't waste their time answering our charges. Don't dignify their charges with an answer. It's time to seize the narrative, by force. Stop trying to justify yourself to those people. Treat them with contempt and disgust. Flick their accusations aside and then go for the jugular.
"Reverend Dobson, you're afraid of homosexuals because of your own secret homosexual tendencies, aren't you?"
"Ms Malkin, would it be fair to say that you hate immigrants because you yourself are an 'anchor baby' of immigrant parents?"
"Mr. Hinderaker, this discussion of the DHS is interesting, but what I really want to know is why your kids aren't fighting in Iraq and supporting the troops in a meaningful way?"
See how easy it is, kids? The fact of the matter is that the people we are fighting are hurting our country and others. Their ignorance and arrogance is costing us our democracy and our lives, not to mention the lives of thousands of innocent people in other nations. We do not have to answer to them. We only have to call them to account. Stop defending yourself. The only real defense against this crowd is a good offense.
Now, go get em.
Remember, this is our enemy:
(Young Republicans at play in their natural habitat.)
Are you afraid of these people? Really?
Login Here
Share This
Spotlight
I 1st
yay TRex!
tough day…
My day dream about debating Frau Ann is to be second speaker and have the opportunity to say to her, “Ann, you ignorant slut.”
fitz…please
Instead….
Reframe that to “Ann, why are you such an ignorant slut?”
T-Rex: CUT & RUN LIBERALS: Here is an interesting argument for reframing the argument.
From newsforreal.com
I want to be perfectly clear about this. We liberals really do want to cut and run.
I admit it. We are cut and run liberials, just as Karl Rove alleges. More than that, I am proud of it and encourage more Americans to join us.
We are liberal/progressives and, damn it, we want to cut and run:
We want to cut and run from the borrow and spend, borrow and spend economics of the GOP that have piled an additional $4 trillion in debt onto our children, grand children and great grand children.
We want to cut and run from the unholy alliance between the GOP and energy companies that have left us at the mercy of a bunch of medieval Islamic tribal leaders who run their own countries like feudal states and treat their own people — especially their women — worse than Americans treat farm animals.
We want to cut and run from a national health care system designed by and for giant health care and pharmaceutical interests, that enriches a few while leaving 45 million Americans without affordable health insurance.
We want to cut and run from a government which, over the past six years, has become not only increasingly closed to public scrutiny and accountability, but overtly hostile and suspicious of citizens who insist on either.
We want to cut an run from a style of governance that not only plays on fear and petty prejudices, but cultivates and exploits them for cheap political gain. The cynical, dishonest purposeful pitting of majority populations against minority groups on the grounds that they don’t share “American values,” and then later deny responsibility for the entirely predictable destructive consequences of those tactics.
We want to cut and run from policies that view science and scientists as adversaries whose findings must sometimes be suppressed, while embracing, even endorsing, religious dogmas that have no basis in fact whatsoever.
We want to cut and run from GOP economic polices that have handed the already wealthy a couple of trillion dollars in tax cuts while leaving working Americans payroll tax virtually untouched.
There are a lot more reasons listed at the link…2nd story down
http://www.newsforreal.com/
Yes, the gloves have definately come off. No more playing nice. The civil debate only works when you play by the rules. And the pen/blog is still mightier than the sword…
check out this great review of “Godless” by Betty Bowers: http://www.bettybowers.com/coulter.html
this would seem to be the perfect marriage. Democrats can’t agree on anything, so they would be inherently incapable of a unified attacking strategy. The attacks would then be all over the place.
On the other hand, this administration has given us so many things worthy of attack…
Attacking is a policy of almost (sadly) endless possibilities.
EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT TRex! I couldn’t agree more. Dean does a great job of this - I think. He throws unfounded claims right back in the pundits face.
And, as much as I hate to be a cynic, I don’t know of a single Dem congresscritter that will ever implement your strategy.
It’s getting rather old.
:::waving to Jane::: Get some rest if you can.
FIGHT BACK
On the other hand, this administration has given us so many things worthy of attack
Attacking is a policy of almost (sadly) endless possibilities.
We live in what the military calls “a target-rich environment”. It’s seriously way past time to stop making excuses to the rightards when their own behavior is so patently inexcusable.
#4 doran - LOL! You can just see her sour milk response if her mike was off and she had to sit and listen for a full three minutes of rebuttle!
Your first instinct on hearing of Jane’s mother’s death was a moratorium on posts? Are you schizoid, man? Then you write about being on the attack? The Cheney Administration would just use it as a great excuse to kill all your relatives, one per day until the elections.
I apologize if this seems disrepectful to Jane, Jane’s mom, and/or her family, but you’ve got to look inward on this, too. You clearly haven’t really internalized the attack position, nor truly understood the depths to which the enemy will reach.
Why can’t we figure out a way to put the GOP on the defensive? Why can’t we make them have to defend themselves (outside a court of law?)
I wholeheartedly agree with everything except the ‘truthiness’ portion.
It just isn’t required.
Ann Coulter is a fascist.
Republicans do send other peoples kids to die.
There are no WMD in Iraq.
And there would be scarce material for conventional explosive IEDs had we bothered to guard a large weopens depot - but we were looking for WMD that DIDN’T EXIST
Iraq became a terrorist breeding and training center only after we invaded
There is no tie between Sadaam and al Quaida
(except that special corner of Hell they will share with WHIG
…
oh, and what doran@4 says
heh
Beautiful! The best defense is a good offense.
Seriously, I heard Paul Hackett on Ed Schultz’s show once . He gets it. That man needs a radio show, hell, even a TV show.
OHHHHOHHHH YUM
I love that term, rethuglicans ‘using our troops as human shields for the midterm elections’ Major meeeoooowwww!
Thank God I abhor fire arms…the debate would end quickly and abruptly!
ohyeah,fuckbush
I love the “anchor baby” line….bwaaaaaaaaah
Let’s explain to everyone what the difference is between “supporting the troops” and “supporting the defense contractors.” And that supporting the troops means bringing them out of the hellhole Bush has put them in, not doing the same thing and hoping it’ll work out.
I like the term “Pharisees” to refer to the Christianist right — religious people know it, and they’ll know it fits.
A variation on what somebody sd somewhere today — The Repubs are the cut and run ones. Cut taxes on the rich and run the army/country into the ground.
Rubber-stamp Republicans is great, I think.
We want to isolate the terrorists instead of isolating ourselves. Bush and the arrogant reupbicans have thrown away an alliance that’s lasted ever since WW II.
In your heart, you know the Republicans are for the rich. Look at everything they’ve done for the past six years and tell me one thing that their rich cronies didn’t want them to do.
Are you better off now than you were when six years ago?
Gas prices have doubled since George Bush came into office. Doubled. It doesn’t take a lot to figure out why that happened, when you’ve got a President, Vice-President, and Secretary of State who were all oil company executives.
Your first instinct on hearing of Jane’s mother’s death was a moratorium on posts? Are you schizoid, man? Then you write about being on the attack?
Have you ever heard of a moment of silence? Originally I had planned a comedic post for tonight, and that seemed tasteless and disrespectful. But when I got the message from Jane to go ahead, it made sense.
Back off, buddy. You’re not the one writing the posts.
Although you mention:
The truth is so fugly that ‘truthy’ can stand aside!
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06.....intel.html
U.S. Taps Vast Banking Database in Secret Antiterror Program, Officials Say
Investigators are reviewing thousands of transactions of
people suspected of ties to Al Qaeda.
10 page article by ERIC LICHTBLAU and JAMES RISEN
Also, the arrest of 7 in Miami tonight–plot to attack the Chicago Tower– AP story
Well, there are some hints that the Democratic leadership is starting to pick up on the theme of “the Republicans think we don’t need to make any changes in Iraq.” I got that in an email from Hillary, of all people:
Yeah, there’s a lot of mishmash about changing course so we can “win,” but let’s face it, Americans hate to lose, and I can’t disagree that “declare victory and get out” is likely to go over better than “declare that Bush lost the war and get out.”
Josh Marshall at TPM found a similar theme, even clearer, from Sherrod Brown in Ohio. I’m cautiously optimistic. This is an attack, and if they can keep from mentioning the idiotic GOP “cut-and-run” and reinforcing it before they attack, it can work.
“Listen to me, Democrats! Never defend. Never explain. Attack, attack, attack! When a right-winger accuses you of something, back up, reframe, ignore the charges, just ATTACK. How hard can this be? Ann Coulter doesn’t waste her time defending herself against our accusations. Neither does Rush Limbaugh. They launch their attacks and the terms of the debate are set from there, and once again, as liberals, we are bringing knives to a gun fight.”
1. You go, baby. That’s it. I’ve been shouting this message around here for awhile. Sometimes my tactics are a bit harsher….but as long as you’re fighting, you’re IN THE GAME.
2. This Digby person has a good companion piece to Mr. TRex’s article. Ya’ll might want to read it. It posted today.
Go get ‘em, TRex. Atta boy!
Ghostman
BTW, Fro-
Read up in the last couple days. Then fold your hands and sit quietly for a spell.
Also, W is for Wimp.
He’s afraid of changing his mind, even when he’s 100% wrong, because fake cowboys can’t look weak.
He was afraid to testify to the 9/11 Commission without Cheney in the room with him.
On 9/11, he ran like a scared rabbit.
He pretends to be cowboy, but he’s afraid of horses.
He won’t let people who disagree with him into his Administration; he won’t even let people who might disagree with him in any of his carefully-programmed public events.
Bush is a fraud. W is for Wimp.
The lines I read earlier today that stay in my mind are:
Republicans are more concerned about saving face than saving lives.
So they choose to sit and watch.
Bank of America cancelled my debit card on Friday. They said their information was compromised and a great number of cardholders had their data compromised. I had no money all weekend. I found out Friday trying to pay a cable bill…
It was clearly a canned stump-speech line, but I still liked Mark Warner’s “we need a foreign policy that unites our friends and divides our enemies, instead of the other way around!”
T Rex,
thank you very much for carrying on - and an Ab Fab post at that god bless ya
and ya know, they should be attacked - not just b/c they’re the opposition, but they’re criminals, and many of them traitors and enemies of the state
fits nicely with the Stop Calling It A War, It’s An Occupation - as long as it’s perceived as “war” someone has to ‘lose’ and Dems remained trapped in a corner of their own painting
like many, I keep asking what have you got to lose at this point ? start screamin from the rooftops ! and I realize they are AFRAID of the Rep. response - it isn’t just the consultants telling them to STFU and coast to November, they’re actually scared - save a handful - goodness, we are going to have to get through November and then we are going to have to do some shoppin’!
Thanks again T Rex, appreciate the keep on keepin’ on
ccmask, I’m sorry to hear that. But you know, my experiences with Bank of America have almost all been like that. The giant does what it wants and it’s up to us little people to scramble around and try to cope.
I killed my account there three years ago. Now, I’m with Wachovia and I like them better.
Here is a snip from a Canadian paper, regarding the Miami infiltration (cough):
Residents living near the warehouse said the men taken into custody described themselves as Muslims and had tried to recruit young people to join their group, which seemed militaristic.
The residents said FBI agents spent several hours in the neighbourhood, showing photos of the suspects and seeking information. They said the men had lived in the area about a year.
The men slept in the warehouse, said Tashawn Rose, 29.
“They would come out late at night and exercise. It seemed like a military boot camp that they were working on there.”
“They would come out and stand guard.”
She talked with one of the men about a month ago.
“They seemed brainwashed. They said they had given their lives to Allah.”
Rose said the men tried to recruit her younger brother and nephew for a karate class.
“It was weird,” she said.
I love it!!!
Sorry to go O/T, but the NY Times just posted a blockbuster story; it’s at the LA Times web site, as well. The Bushies have been checking bank transaction records since 9/11…and not telling anybody.
When Bilbray won CA-50. There was a bunch of lame-o pundits on saying how his tough immigration stance won him the day. The dems that were around mumbled and shit. I was sitting there yelling at the TV for them to point out how Schwartzenegger cheated the Visa system when he came to the country, cut in line, and is thus an illegal alien as well. Mr. Pundit, how is Bilbray going to play with the base if I go on all these talk shows and reframe the debate to Arnie’s immigration status? It will devolve your shit into chaos and his defenders will have to do a bunch of blustering and defensive shit.
We Won The War Three Years Ago
Time To End The Occupation
Yeah, J. Frink, I just posted the link upthread. It’s a huge story. Tomorrow’s papers are going to be filled with Terror stories. eegads.
Are Christy and I the only ones who ever listened to Bauhaus?
Senator Reid…such a nice man. Wish he jabbed verbally the way he supposedly does with gloves on. Go Russ, and Dr. Dean! Now they know how to attack, I say.
We Know The Real Enemy
Bin Laden
And We Intend To Kill Him
Elect The Democrats
TRex- Another blockbuster of an article.
I am here and I am reading, at least for a while. You know where to find me.
Amen.
Remember the Truman Give ‘em Hell story.
(which I repeat from earlier today, so apologies in advance.)
Shout from audience: “Give ‘em hell Harry!”
Truman: “I don’t give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it’s Hell.”
so I say our motto should be “Truth! Truth! Truth! Truth! Truth! Truth! Right in their faces. Right in the medias faces.”
If BushCo thinks it’s an attack, or hell, that is their problem.
(Need to get barf bags and diapers for consultants and DLCers though. But those are pretty cheap.)
Agree, VG (hi!). Reading and baking a pan of brownies ;)
I agree that when attacked not to go on the defensive.
But using THEIR tactics is the same as stooping to their level. It was bad enough with the slanderous lies against the Democrats. I can’t imagine how bad it would get if Democrats use the same methods against the Republicans. This country would truly come apart and be ripe for civil war.
I’ve always found that if you stick to the truth and the facts, you’re on a higher moral ground than your adversary. You may not always win if your audience isn’t on the same moral ground, but the truth is behind you. If we don’t base our arguments on the truth than are we really better than the other side?
Dave - Just snarl when you speak the truth.
Are Christy and I the only ones who ever listened to Bauhaus?
I wondered how long it was going to take someone to get the Bauhaus reference.
LOL!
ATTACK! ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTAAAAACK!!!!
That just made me laugh. I can hear you saying it, TRex.
Just wanted to pop in and thank everyone so much for all their thoughts and prayers. We really felt sustained by them today.
I kept wanting to throw myself on the bed and cry for my mom to make it all stop, but really we were exceptionally blessed. She had her mind until the end (she was chewing my brother-in-law out just last night, then laughing about it), she wasn’t in pain, she went quickly and we got to sit with her and hold her hands through it all. I thought I couldn’t make it through and then one second progressed into the next and suddenly it was over. It was absolutely the way she wanted to go and I’m so truly grateful I got to participate in it.
Thanks SO MUCH to Christy, TRex and everyone for holding down the fort so I wasn’t worried and distracted and could spend the past few days with my mom and just really enjoy this time with her. The comment threads make me teary but they are absolutely beautiful. What a loving and special community, I feel so privileged to be a part of it.
T-Rex: Wachovia is a good idea. I just love this post. You outdid yourself.
I always say to co-workers-Name me one thing that Bush had done for the American people in 5 years? They all say the same thing–he protected us after 911. Republicans have a very big Mary spot–they are scared shit of terrorists and that is how Bush keeps them in line. It takes one to know one.
Smear them with the truth, I say.
I said this a couple threads ago
As to ann coultar: if liberalism is a religion (as she says) and she advocates killing liberals because of what we believe isn’t she practising hate speech and can she be sanctioned by state and federal law(s) for it in whatever state she spews it?
TRex - this is a classic.
Bush has no plan to win the war.
Bush wants our troops to stay and die.
Bush wants to pass the buck.
These statements have no words of more than one syllable. That may be the key to victory in November. Let’s try these out, Democratic leadership.
Oh, then there’s my old standby:
========
Had Enough?
========
I don’t want to cut and run, I want to shave and fly.
Just hope they bring home all our the weapons of minimal destruction. Every single bullet.
Agreed, TRex, but with a few caveats.
When they start raving about supporting the troops, (I get this a lot on the bluegrass site where I hang out, it being mostly conservatives)
I counter:
But I’ve supported the troops since before the invasion.
I didn’t want to send them on operation enduring shitmire. You guys DID send them.
and now that the only thing they’re doing, is killing Iraqis and getting killed themselves, while their sole purpose for being there, is to cover goatboy’s political ass, you guys want to KEEP them there.
What kind of support is that?
In fact, as the wheels keep coming off, just hammer them with “enlist!” and
“keyboard support doesn’t count; ON to Parris Island and Ramadi!!!!”
:o)
We are at the 1 year anniversary of Halliburton Dick’s “the insurgents are in their last throes”
It’s a good time to throw a party for the keyboard commandos and ask them if they think Dick got it right? kinda like:
“We know where the WMD’s are; they’re to the north and east and south, of Baghdad, somewhat…”
Point out that with the respective populations, those 1400 Iraqis who died in the sectarian violence in May, which bushCo has unleashed on Iraq, is like about 18 THOUSAND americans dying, if someone had turned the U.S. into a fucking chaos-theory petrie dish.
Ask them if, when the helicopter-on-the-roof moment comes, those of us who opposed the fucking of the cluster, can have, as a consolation prize for thousands of dead american troops, and scores of thousands of dead Iraqis, and for the $300 billion pissed into the mesopotamian desert, the small compensation of NEVER, EVER, again, hearing the conservatives complain about “wasteful government spending” on social programs.
Trex, Jane and you guys don’t have ENOUGH bandwidth to cover all the hammers we have, to beat these corporate-4th-reich dingbats even more senseless than they already are.
The Japanese contingent of 600 will be gone in about a month. The Italians will soon follow. The pressure on Blair to get the brit troops home, is becoming excruciating.
Are the asshats looking forward to supporting our troops while they hold on to a flaming, bloody, bag of shit, by themselves?
So MANY sticks to beat these assholes with…which one to use??? :o)
Christy listens to Bauhaus?
TRex:
You are my god.
The memes are endless.
Bush is, in fact, a coward
http://www.btsawyer.com/awol/docs/doc24.gif
a liar
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITI.....index.html
and a fool
http://www.amusingquotes.com/h.....Bush_1.htm
Cheney is, in fact, a coward
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1:121944268/CHENEYS PRIORITIES DURING VIETNAM WAR, SERVING IN.html?refid=ency_botnm
a liar
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOL......al.qaeda/
and a fool
http://www.seeingtheforest.com.....ohol_1.htm
Just fill in a name, hit Google & Wiki, and let it fly.
Go Russ!
Love you Jane!
How many more Americans have to die for the Republican failure in Iraq? Simple enough?
Great advice, TRex. And if anyone whines (as they WILL) that it has been proven that Americans don’t like this negativity — and they hold Democrats and Republicans equal in this.
Well, if they supposedly think that anyway, what is the problem then? (And, of course, acting this way DOES work.)
Hi Jane.
Best. Thread. Ever.
I prefer Little Bahaus
Jane! So good to hear your virtual voice. I hope we all spend our last days the way your mom did–with her family holding her hands and without pain.
Nice to have you with us, Jane.
I absolutely agree that we should be attacking and quit trying answer their bullshit charges, but lets not stray too far into “truthiness”. Isn’t that a bit part of what we despise about the Bushies and the wingnut base? We just need to speak the truth more forcefully.
“Republican kids won’t fight in Bush’s war because, deep down, they don’t believe in it, either.”
That’s a start. Use that against any one of the chickenhawks that think it’s more important to get into Wharton than sign up. Paste-eaters, Red-Staters, the entire membership of the College Republicans, all included.
And never apologize!
Oh man - I just wanna SCREAM when democrats say something decently snarky, the rethugs DEMAND an apology - AND THEY GET IT!
Darth Cheney today on CNN - smug and smarmy and nasty and arrogant - and COMPLETELY UNREPENTENT!
That’s how they win.
Iraq is a failed occupation - Bush is trying to create an empire - empire building always fails and Bush has failed - FAILED!
“stoned on whiskey sours and arrogance”.
Oh yes. I know the type. (And, I agree — go get them — don’t back down — they have had almost 6 years and they’re proud of…?)
big…I’ll spellcheck next time.
bad
Trex. I wish you’d give a class in this. This is the kind of advice for which people pay millions. A little background research on the person your attacking doesn’t hurt either.
Bravo!
My condolences go out to Jane and her family for their loss.
Don’t kill yourselves trying to frame the argument. You’ve got the wood; you’ve got nails; you’ve even got glue. But you don’t own the store window.
I’m a blog rat, a netroots guy and all that, but here’s the deal. Whatever comes out of the mouth of Rove, whether or not it rhymes, whether it is a lie, whether it can pass any smell test at all, the MSM will run with it incessantly for weeks and perhaps months. Whatever you or we come up with, or even Mr. Kerry, it is dead as soon as it leaves the lips. That is the problem. I love blogs, but do they really compete with ABC, CBS, NBS, FOX, MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WaPo, on and on and on.
I do not think so. We had to endure, “the blame game” for how long? Have mercy, how is this any different from “I know you are, but what am I”? If you control the media, this level of sandbox dribble passes as valid political argument. The problem is not in framing the issue; the problem is not having access to the MSM. How many Dems make good arguments every day, but if you do not read blogs and watch CSPAN you would never know. A Republican gets on cable and cannot even hint at identifying more than three of the Ten Commandments, yet he is still seen as a fine, upstanding, family-values, Christian kind of guy. If a Democrat were caught being that much of an idiot, it would be aired every night on every newscast, on every network affiliate in the entire nation.
Mr. President? When do you expect to attend your first funeral of our fallen children? Will you jump around like you need to urinate and smile when you do?
Let’s see. You Republicans control the White House, the Senate, an the House of Representatives, and you can’t balance the budget? Congratulations! If you have all the power, you get all the responsibility. And if you fail, it’s your failure. Suck it up.
The Rovian word-tricks are based on falsity, and should not be repeated even to counter them. Attack with our own - concise and ringing phrases - and based on the truth. Jesse Jackson’s great at this.
One of the wonderful things about this post, TRex, is that it’s a game everyone can play.
Are you an accountant? Have we got some books for you to look over . . .
Are you (or have you been) in the military? Let the world know what it’s like to face the enemy with less than suitable equipment . . .
Are you a lawyer? Tell us, please, how Article II of the Constitution trumps the Fourth Amendment? (I always thought the amendments trumped the original text myself, but IANAL . . .)
Are you in communications? Can you translate what Tony Snow didn’t say into sensible language? . . .
Are you a parent of a teenager? Can you come up with a way to get politicians to listen and respond when someone asks them a question . . .
As for the negativity charges
“Vote for fear”
Hi Jane - stay strong
I wish I could claim this, but… On C-SPAN a caller said:
Republicans are the “Cut and Run” party… They cut taxes and run up the debt.
Best wishes to you, Jane.
OfT, but WaPoO Chris Cillizza’s getting smacked around on his “analysis” of Lieberman’s bad week. Chris actually calls the bear ad “sound strategy,” for which many commenters have taken him to task, in many creative ways. Fun to read:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com.....l#comments
If you’re still here, Jane, big hugs for you. Even if you’re not!
My love and prayers go out to you and your family, Jane.
Mr. President, Mr. Vice President: Why aren’t YOUR children fighting right now in Iraq?
Stolen data: yes I agree with people here that the government does not need to steal from itself. However:
Private companies are doing the stealing, in order to amass large data sets to sell to
(1) the government, who then can conveniently claim no laws were broken, and obviously this excludes military data; and
(2) other companies who would be ecstatic to learn the intimate commercial and personal details of hundreds of millions of Americans.
A commenter here ?yesterday said a friend in the military had already had his bank acccount pinged. I swore because we are treating our military horribly, AND we let their personal data be stolen and sold to the vultures. SHAME.
You Republicans are bought and paid for, and not by us. Why should we trust you on anything?
Mr VP did you have your daughter come out so she could escape serving in the armed forces like you?
Wow. Great post TRex.
It would be nice if the political arean would entertain debates based on merit and facts. But this just isn’t the time. The general public doesn’t want to have to think. They want snappy rhetoric that makes them feel like winners even if they’re not and thats just what the Repubs dish out.
Speaking like this is fine and dandy when addressing talking points of the politicos, newspaper editors, and blogs. It’s a different game all together when it comes to having a conversation with your neighbors or co-workers. In the long run it gets nothing real accomplished. We need leaders with integrity across the entire political spectrum and not as many greedy hacks and good ol’ boys.
85: that’s evil. I like it.
Ghostman
Just to let you all know- I closed out the comments on the “Sorrow” post for now, because it’s late and it has been a stressful day. There was a lot of ugly stuff earlier, and I doubt that anyone wants to stay up all night to filter out the crap. I posted a comment: “Comments are temporarily closed, but will be reopened soon. Thanks.” Considering the outpouring of the FDL community, I hope that the comments are reopened when “backup lower level staff” are available.
So if high Clinton officials had outed a CIA agent, where would you have held the hanging?
I sat on my eyeglasses this morning and went to the optical store. The guy who fixed my glasses said he was notified that his info was compromised(he served in the air force many years ago). What a disaster…there is just no way to fight that noise. At least when the spores & anthrax attacks were going on, I was able to fill out one of those postcards and told the post office to hold my mail. Mt postman said, Oh, you’re taking a vacation” and I said no just hold my mail ntil this crap blows over.
Valley Girl are you serious people posted nasty stuff? I am dumbfounded in disbelief. I guess that is what happens when you are open to the public. Unreal.
So if you lied us into the war in Iraq, how come you can’t lie us out of it?
good night all…
“Are Christy and I the only ones who ever listened to Bauhaus?
I wondered how long it was going to take someone to get the Bauhaus reference.”
I got it right away. Hell, the bauhaus reference got me to post here for the first time.
Now I have to go put on some more black clothing and eyeliner……
Another great post, TRex. Thanks. Now, how to get them to do it…
Macarthur redeployed troops across the Pacific
And defeated the Japanese
Time To Redeploy
Time To Defeat Al Queda
Thank you, VG and all the stagehands who moderated and filtered comments today–it’s hard to believe people would post anything vile on a thread devoted to sympathy.
Hi Jane, good to “see” you, hang in there, hon.
Mr. Pres. Don’t you just love recruiting mexicans out of mexican high schools for your military purpose?
‘night pups.
Dana #98
There are many strange people in this world and some are stranger than others.
Oh, what my drill sergeant would’ve done to those fratboy azzhats in the lower photo!
It’s been a tough day for everyone here, but I’ll be able to lull myself to sleep with images of those maggots in oversize olive drab, low crawling though mud under barbed wire…
Look at those beer guts! They’d have to double-time in their sleep to pass a PT test. It’d be the ultimate challenge, trying to make soldiers out of those pasty-white tubs of goo.
I’ll say this for the Coultergeist, she’s more of a man than both of them combined on their best day. What sorry pieces of ship.
“Why are you Republicans such cowards? Your leaders are all draft-dodgers who’ve never fired a shot at anything but a bunch of canned quails and old lawyers. You’re using the troops as human shields against the midterm elections! Do you like seeing our brave men and women in uniform slaughtered and killed? Or are you just too much of a coward to face the consequences of your failed policies in Iraq? Which is it? Do you just hate the soldiers or do you hate your constituents?”
This is fabulous!
As for attack! Attack! ATTACK!!!!!!
It makes me think of the Daleks crying Exterminate! Exterminate! Exterminate!
The headline on this thread reminded me of the Miami Vice two part episode that featured G.Gordo Liddy as bad spook taking back the vid evidence of atrocity in Central America (a nod to Iran/Conta, I think). Ends w/Sonny listenning to ‘news’ that was RoveWellian…
—
That was before I started watching Max Headroom in the same timeslot…and found the ‘Blanks’….seems like a concept worth looking at:
–
from a Max Headroom FAQ
What are ‘blanks’?
Blanks are people who have either fallen off the information nets, or taken themselves off deliberately. Usually known and addressed by their first names with “Blank” as a title - Blank Reg, Blank Bruno, and Blank Dom(inique) are three we get to know well.
So is it because you don’t believe in global warming that you didn’t believe in Katrina? And with that good night.
MsAnnaNOLA- the comments from people who we know, and also from those who probably delurked for the first time were absolutely wonderful tributes.
But, alas, there were hateful ugly comments from— well, I just don’t know what to call them. That is not to say I don’t have a large choice of words available, it’s just that I haven’t made up my mind yet about the words to use.
I have to say it’s difficult to believe most of the Dems are so mindnumbingly obtuse. They have to know they’re acting like wienies. Fear of Rove and coercion by big money contributors has much to do with it I guess.
Yes, MsAnnaNOLA– very ugly people came out last nite and tonight. Thanks to our dear moderators; they are gone. I do not understand their motivation and ugliness– pure evil tactics to attack only when someone is devastasted. Cowardly and unfeeling. frightened creeps.
Agree with Bill Selznik @74 - the game is rigged and dems are damned if they do and damned if they don’t - and it doesn’t matter what it is.
Take today for example: How long have we been hearing from the MSM whores, “Where is the dems’ plan for Iraq? Instead of just bashing Bush’s lead-up to and conduct of the war, why don’t dems come up with a plan?”
So, the dems came up with a plan (or two?) and John King on CNN today kept repeating, “Why did the dems feel like they had to come up with plans? Why wasn’t it enough to point out Bush’s failures with Iraq?”
It’s a planned set-up and that’s how they’ll always play it.
Also, notice how combative TV anchors are with dems and how softball they are with rethugs - Noron is the prime example - it’s premeditated and intentional - network policy, I’m sure.
These MSM policies are not gonna change until dems challenge the “journalists” during the interviews - and stop allowing the idiot MSM talking heads to walk all over them.
The other day Noron was interviewing Biden and she must have said “cut and run democr