
I wrote a comment the other day in response to some questions about Arianna. It completely baffled Byron York and the wingnuts, which I found both telling and amusing. This was what I said:
[Arianna and I] have the opposite response to celebrities - I don’t enjoy being around them, I don’t cultivate them as friends and I go out of my way to never mention them but I understand why she does. She’s managed to use her celebrity contacts to create a very successful site that has become important in the political discourse. When Fitzgerald was trying to keep Judy Miller in the clink he cited Prof. Geoffrey Stone of the ACLU writing on the Huffington Post. I don’t know that a lot of people remember that but it was rather landmark. Do people go to the HuffPo because Geoffrey Stone is there? No, they draw big traffic because John Cusack and Alec Baldwin and Harry Shearer are there. But Arianna uses that to provide a platform for important thinkers like Geoffrey Stone who in turn have the opportunity to have greater influence and a bigger audience than they otherwise would.
We do something a bit similar. Atrios says Plame is like porn and it is. We get our big traffic from it, that’s what people love to read about. We use that big traffic to do our series on racism and war profiteering and labor that otherwise probably wouldn’t get much traffic at all. I don’t care if those posts get 10 comments, we’ll keep doing them and they can (and have) begun to impact the consciousness of the blogosphere. I think that’s the responsible thing to do.
I think there’s value in what Arianna does, and it’s not just celebrity chasing. When you talk with her it just isn’t something she mentions, she’s much more preoccupied with stopping the war any way she can. I’ve never had a conversation with her about movie stars, I’ve had plenty about how to influence politicians to get us out of Iraq. She’s a very savvy marketer in being able to use her gifts to leverage political influence and I respect her tremendously.
Now to be fair to Atrios I think he said that about the Plame case when it was a piece of unsubstantiated speculation (something along the lines of "Hadley has flipped," but don't quote me) but my larger point remains. People love this story. I love this story. I would love to do nothing but sit around all day, read through documents and piece things together like a giant puzzle. I think our enthusiasm for the story is genuine and infectious and that's been one of the reasons for the popularity of the site.
But the notion that someone would build a site that people wanted to visit seems utterly alien to York:
Related to my piece today about the Plameologists and their fixation on the CIA leak case, I just saw a brief posting by firedoglake founder Jane Hamsher that sheds some light on that site's emphasis on the Plame matter. Defending Arianna Huffington against accusations that she places too much emphasis on celebrities, Hamsher writes that the Huffington Post and firedoglake use similar strategies to attract readers.
It's a "fixation" we use to "attract readers." Yes, it's called capitalism. Free enterprise. The opposite of wingnut welfare. It's what happens when you create a good product and people show up so advertisers want to pay you so you can keep the lights on. But Byron isn't the only one at the NRO unfamiliar with the concept.
Says Rich Lowrey, hat in hand:
Because—let me be frank here—we lose money. NRO is a loss leader. And here’s what’s unfortunate—the print magazine is a loss leader too. We are surrounded by loss leaders. If we ever have ideas to further our mission, they are guaranteed to be loss leaders. If your business needs advice on how to develop a loss leader, come to us. We have it down. I assure you we can help you start to lose money almost immediately. It’s our specialty. We have been doing it for 50 years and hope to keep doing it for many more.
That last bit isn’t quite right. We’d prefer not to lose money. But there is something to the opinion journalism business that makes it inherently unprofitable.
Remember that the next time they want to lecture you on their "fiscal conservatism." They're privileged, white upper middle-class twits who want the right to shovel shit nobody wants to read and then be paid for it quite handsomely. They're unwilling to compete in the free market. Always asking for a handout, expecting someone to take care of them.
The NRO quite proudly represents the party with their hands on the purse strings. No wonder the country is swimming in red ink.
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Murtha!
Friday catblogging!
http://atrios.blogspot.com/
Pach! Rootz!
Fitz! And can I just say, great post!? I love the respect for others that is demonstrated time after time on this site. It is so not one-size-fits-all.
“NRO: Keeping the socialism in National Socialism since 1956.”
Rats, my turn to be immoderate.
OT - murtha on cnn now
Jane,
Your description of what Arianna is doing at the post and the way you leverage the Plame scandal to get exposure for other, less sexy, but extremely important issues is so breathtakingly smart, I’m just glad I’m on your side.
…Harry…
…enjoyed this posting, what you do is incredibly important…in the end it changes stuff for all of us…thank you Jane
plame may be the porn… and i confess that’s what brought me here. but what i stay for is the roots.
Jane,
“a somewaht popular blogger” would say you’re his Peggy Noonan
this is intellectual welfare, when all this cretin has to do is check your posts for his insta-columns
Byron uses a ‘girl’ for training wheels
Wingnut welfare. God bless you, Jane.
They turn everything on its fucking head. It used to be a point of pride for the networks’ news departments to be loss leaders–an imprimatur of journalistic integrity. Now it’s all about the Benjamins for TV and print, while the echo chamber persists only because of the money that keeps getting shovelled in.
Wow, Jane, you tied that purse up from a totally unexpected direction and nailed a really interesting point I’d never considered. Succinct and on point and happily a propos of nothing in particular.
mommybrain
left you a gossipy snippet downstairs
Jane,
Don’t let the bastards grind you down! You speak the truth–and you speak it very, very well.
Love,
bicmon
All these posts from visitors to YKOS - not participants, tourists - make it so clear they really have no idea yet what’s happened. Shhhh! Let’s not tell them. The one who I thought got it most right was the reporter from the LV Sun who wrote about YKos (he said Stirling Newberry is our guru, though. I love him but don’t think of him that way…yet).
When I was volunteering with a river preservation group, Friends of the River, many years ago, our most purist members ragged on us about using our celebrity contacts to raise money and awareness in Los Angeles. “But it’s antithetical to what we believe!” they whined. But when they had the chance to have a fundraiser with no celebs, they also raised no money. When in Rome, kiddos…
al-Scooter - do it moderately
(Hi BYork!)
Great post! But why did you head it off, so to speak, with a picture of Neil Bush in Camo?
Personally I would not describe the Plame story as “like porn” because that can sound disrespectful to Joe Wilson’s wife. But I do see Jane’s larger point:
“We use that big traffic to do our series on racism and war profiteering and labor that otherwise probably wouldn’t get much traffic at all. I don’t care if those posts get 10 comments, we’ll keep doing them and they can (and have) begun to imact the consciousness of the blogosphere. I think that’s the responsible thing to do.”
I agree with that argument.
p.s. i just gotta say it… both jane and arianna are brillliant, and i’m so glad they are on our side.
jane (and christy and pach), many many thanks for all you do. i don’t say it enough, but i think it every day.
That is the deciderer in his disguise the other nite as he entered the green zone.
NRO is a loss leader. And here’s what’s unfortunate — the print magazine is a loss leader too. We are surrounded by loss leaders.
It makes me think of them as the Losst Boys of NeverneverlandReviewOnline.
Another great post, Jane, on one of my favorite topics: FDL!!
My love letter to FDL:
Dear Jane, Christy, Pach and all the guests (including TRex, Jordan, Taylor, MattO and on and on and on)
I know that there have been a number of posts/comments over the past months about why this is such a great place at which to hang out. The XX to XY posting balance is certainly way up there. Also, the recent addition of Pach on the roots work is just so present and exciting that its like watching change happen in real time.
But another key factor here is the seriousness of the posts — both in topic and in depth. Many high-traffic sites do not have many in-depth posts in a week, let alone every day. By your amazing output and broad range of topics, yYou feed my need for analysis and information like no other space.
This spurns readers to post serious comments. Then, it brings in readers not only to the front paged materials but deeper into the comments to see what else people are saying. Once there, people discover the amazingly wide range of voices and experiences and skills and humor and interests. So develops a worthwhile community. It is like the best coffee house I ever visited: with fabulous conversation amongst great interesting people hanging out for a long time or ducking in and out for a quick cup of enlightenment.
Long may this site run so that I have a blog place to get my brain triple shot latte.
Love,
Immanentize
Sooooo…..
Who actually pays for the wingnut drivel at NRO?
re the photo - looks like chimpy thought they said sneer sacker instead of seersucker.
Lowery:
“But there is something to the opinion journalism business that makes it inherently unprofitable.” Yeah, the WRONG-HEADED opinion journalism business, shit-for-brains!
Why do these guys make it so easy to mock them? Do they love the torment? Jane?
Uh, yeah. I come to Firedoglake for the articles…
Yeah, that’s it.
The articles…
And, Jane, with all due respect, Arianna allows me to link to my political imagery -because- it is not spam but visual commentary. My individually linked pages are intended to encourage thinking through imagery.
Anyway, I do agree with your analysis. Firedoglake and Huffpo leave indelible marks of different shapes. This is where I come for critical analysis.
immanentize 25 — thanks. That was lovely.
Jane you are great, and FDL is such a gift.
Hey Byron as I told you gloating is very ugly. Now hurry get to that fax machine Babs may have next weeks plans coming thru as you’re reading….LOL
Jane,
“If we ever have ideas to further our mission, they are guaranteed to be loss leaders.”
The epitaph for Georgie-Boy - The Loss Leader!
I second that, Mad Dogs!
I’m gonna tear a page from the wingnut book and climb all over Immanentize’s love letter as if it were my own
it’s effing perfect imm
what imm said Jane !
Do ya wonder what they use as a defintion in NROland of “loss leader?”
When he goes on to say:
Pricey advertisers don’t naturally flock to small-circulation magazines . . . as the follow up to the “loss leader” self-description, I have to wonder. Not that I question their ability to lead to lossnessland, but more from that retail/free enterprise aspect.
Jane and Arianna have the “loss leader” concept nailed with Plame and celebs - loss leader = something that is widely sought, provided at a cost/form etc. that makes it very appealing to get you in the door. Then you shop through the rest while you’re there.
OTOH, with war is peace approach to neoconservatism — I guess they ARE a loss leader. ;-)
bicmon @ 1:30 pm (#16) - Or, as they used to say in Rome rectumi non carborundum ;-)
CNN - more “progress” in Iraq. Another soldier killed and 2 unaccounted for.
This is a very interesting phenomenon that college courses could be (and should be) built around. Why is it the entire right wing media empire is built on subsidized outlets? I’d add the Washington Times and the garbage scows full of bulk book purchases to Jane’s examples. It’s outright communism if you ask me.
Liberals may not be able to come to agreement on much without having public fights, but at least we seem to understand the concept of free market capitalism. Liberal ideals have nothing to do with money, so if there is money it’s a happy coincidence. The conservative-cum-republican ideology seems focused on the grubbiest chasing of personal wealth. It’s like a group of Star Trek’s Ferengi—money above everything, including family. The wealthy liberals and progressives tend to be self-made, whereas the wealthy republicans tend to be trust fund heirs or crony capitalists. Or outright crooks.
Does Lowrey even know what a “loss leader” is? At your commercial bank and on the financial pages, it means that you’re selling something below price for the sake of attracting more customers for other kinds of business.
But NR and NRO aren’t doing that. No, NR and NRO just looks like a plain ol’ “dogs“–businesses losing money every which way.
I can see why torture-is-no-biggie Byron York wouldn’t be fussy for attracting mainstream readers in any kind of appreciable volume, though.
For those of you who aren’t Digby regulars, tristero IMO hit this one over the scoreboard and into the parking lot.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
Hopefully that broken windshield belongs to Unka Karl.
We use that big traffic to do our series on racism and war profiteering and labor that otherwise probably wouldn,t get much traffic at all.
They got loss-leaders, you got win-followers.
about the founding and funding of NRO: the Buckleys started National Review during the Cold War with money from their Latin American petroleum holdings (Pantepec Oil, etc.)
Have we all seen the latest fecal droppings from the Turdblossom?
They want to marginalize the net roots in a bad way.
“The Internet for the Left of the Democratic Party has served as a way to mobilize hate and anger — hate and anger, first and foremost, at this President and Conservatives, but then also at people within their own party whom they consider to be less than completely loyal to this very narrow, very out-of-the-mainstream, very far Left-wing ideology that they tend to represent.”
-GSD
cbl - responded, too, downstairs. Lost where I saw your comment about meeting meeting the towering FDLers - honestly, the most amazing thing is you know them already, ain’t no big diff in person.
FDL - the ladies, pach, Trex, Matt O. (kisses, honey), Taylor, digby et al; and the flip, our community - what would I do without y’all? Oh, that’s right, get some work done. Imm, you say for me, too.
OT Just catching up on old threads, the ic terrorists forced me to go get napkins Cujo. Between the ics and the ists, we won’t be a free country until we find some acceptable prefixes!
Ditto to Imman’s letter. I just loved Lowery’s piece too, especially where he Maothed world movement imagery and said that it was ok for people to enjoy the fruits of the labors of others for free. Amazing that they don’t bury The Econmist.
Do they keep track at NRO of which wackjob there is the leading loss leader from month to month or week to week? Do the losingest loss leaders get bonuses?
I’m really a lot happier here in the reality-based world…….
You get readers in part because the prose is a joy to read. I only look at Time or Newsweek when I’m waiting in a doctor’s office and–gad–what an awful stylebook they write out of. I almost think it’s generated by computer. When I happen across The Economist, on the other hand, it is at least pleasurable to read, even if I disagree with a large swath of their politics.
As far as the Plame Affair, it is interesting to read mainly because it is such an intricate mystery with all the legal manoeurvering and such. I long ago digested the ramifications of the broader tale, which in essence does not differ much from any other high crime and misdemeanor committed by this Administration. But writing on the meaning of “sealed v. sealed”, or the spread pattern of birdshot for that matter, gives a welcome pause from what are perhaps weightier issues. It is not that racism or war profiteering or labor cannot be interesting. It is more that I think we are all overburdened by each outrage du jour that occasional relief by some levity or some unravelling of a mystery is welcome. Of course, the more humiliating to the Bushites, the more salacious, the more petard-hoisting the better. What happened to those hookers anyway?
The other reason I like this site is because of the comments: The proper balance between snark and earnestness, and not troll-infested.
GSD#44….Yep I saw them, they are stank aren’t they?…imagine Rover upset by anger and hate? LMAO
GSD - that was my thought, too, when I saw his quote this morning. He’s going to fight hard; we should, too.
Jane, it’s your passion that brings me here — i love it when you skip the pc bullshit & go straight for the jugular
I was a little iffy on the HuffPost, but after reading this I agree - more power to Arianna. It’s like James Brown said in the case of hot pants: A woman’s got to use what’s she’s got/ to get just what she wants. There should be no disgrace in leveraging Hollywood to affect politics. The Republicans just act like there is because its one of the Left’s real assets, and they don’t want us to use it. But the Right feels no shame tapping its industry friends in Colorado Springs and Houston.
Jane,
Just sent you an email regarding LJ and a comment I posted in defense to all the incoming wus complaints/attacks he is taking.
Am I sick…a patriot…or both?
I come for the Fitz porn, I stay for the Fitz footnotes.
My complaint with HuffPo - and I probably didn’t express it adequately in my original comment - isn’t even so much the celebrity snogging as the lack of Quality Control there.
I mean, Exhibit A: Sheldon Drobny - tax accountant by day, Fitzgerald expert never.
immanentize at 1:34 pm - I’m not a very active participant, but I come here daily for all the reasons you’ve enunciated. Well said!
Or, as George Bush would say, “Touche!”
Where does the arrogance of radical right wing reporters come from? It can’t be because of their investigative reporting. It can’t be do to their penetrating insights. It cannot have anything to do with fulfilling their responsibility to the American people. It can’t be because they are trusted figures of the Murrow and Kronkite mold. So what exactly feeds their arrogance when writing and the smirks on their faces when they are on television.
It comes from, regardless of any other consideration, the feeling that they are on the winning side. Backed up throughout the mainstream media they sell the RNC talking points and government propaganda, knowing that any criticism of their manipulations will either not appear in the media or appear once and then disappear. They feel invincible with the major publishers, television and radio broadcasters, and big business on their side. They care not about principles, integrity, honor, the Constitution or the rules of law. All that they care about is being on the winning side. They are perfect candidates for fascist propaganda. After all, isn’t everything about them?
IIRC Jane’s original comment was buried in the netherland of a Late Nite post. It is interesting that a conservative commentator is that avid a reader of Firedoglake. Who knows maybe he will learn something lurking about. I usually do.
The National Review used to be a great magazine. While I didn’t always agree with the content or the people who wrote for it, the magazine was always thought provoking, intelligent, and clear in devotion to the conservative principals it espoused. It also had a depth of thought and research that was admirable.
Unfortunately, it is a sad shadow of what it once was. And now it is just another neo-con mouthpiece for the Bush Administration. I’m not sure when the decline happened. Maybe during the 90’s when it jumped onto the Troopergate/Whitewater/Lewinsky bandwagon. Certainly hiring Jonah Goldberg, Lucianne Goldberg’s son was a low point. Jonah, who often posts opines against books, articles, and speeches that he hasn’t even read. Maybe it’s the deadly combination of York and Lowry, two kool-aid drinking shills for the Bush administration. York and Lowry, who spent most of the 2000 primaries smearing McCain, an actual fiscal conservative. It’s sad, really. I would guess that William F. Buckley left out of sheer embarrassment.
Mary @ 1:41 pm (#36) - I thought that one important part of being a “loss leader” was that it made other parts of the enterprise more profitable. In NRO’s case, I’m wondering how the term applies …
Jane:
Keep on writing smart, to-the point posts. I enjoy every one of them. You’re a role model for what people who are concerned about this country should be doing.
This is the best way to change the political landscape!
I work in the film business and I cringe every time Arianna drops names or talks about her clothes. Your point is very well made of why she does it and how that helps to reach the mass audience. It’s also reflected in the comments of the readers which I find absolutely hilarious.
However, the best reader comments are on FDL and at the end, this site is about substance.
FDL rocks; it keeps me sane and informed! I have a lot of respect for what Arianna has done with her talent and her contacts.
CNN just had wolfie having to fact check yet again because he was being mono-rethug-brained and disputatious wrt to Bill Clinton’s poll numbers. Yep, they were at or above 50% even with the impeachment caca. He fact checked Begala, and then said– Paul’s always right.
Then he showed Bolten playing the bass at the the ro-de-o with his sunglasses on! Are HIS sunglasses ok, preznit? They were singing a Bonnie Raitt song– wonder what Bonnie thinks about that??? Oh, and wolfie had to tell the audience (as he smiled indulgently), that Johnny rides a Harley.
blech
Good point, Hugh — they are reading VERY carefully, aren’t they?
Wow, great post.
Came for the Plame, stayed for the great site and community.
You caught me! I’m only here for the porn *g*
Cujo359 59 - how about “loss loser”?
W, the Loss Leaderer
Lobstergirl 52
I come for the Fitz porn, I stay for the Fitz footnotes.
footnote fetish?
OT (somewhat): Fresh
pornPlameology at Needlenose … did Rove throw another Novak under the bus?anon @ 1:57 pm (#58) - One thing’s for sure, none of these new conservatives remind me of Buckley or Safire, or even George Will. They seem to be completely unfamiliar with how the world really works for people who aren’t rich, and have little use for logic or research.
I like FDL quite alot, but I would say it is quite chatty in the comments and bordering on cliquey.
Kos has its heavy hitters but I don’t sense the cliquishness that seems to be developing here.
TO also has some very good writing in the comments, but again a bit cliquey.
Having said that the headline posts are usually top quality and very thought provoking here on FDL. I am a big fan of Jane and Red’s heads.. i mean the gray matter therein.
My goodness. Pass around the Kleenex!
You honor us with your presence, your engagement, and even your passionate disagreement.
This is the funniest comment thread ever.
Cujo157 - I don’t go there enough to know, but from the links here and elsewhere, I have a feeling that they may own stock in Paul Mitchell on the side.
c @ #55, I think the reason right wing journalists have their arrogance is that they truly believe they are defending Western Civilization from Barbarians. They believe they are maintaining a tradition going back to the Athenian city state. They think Liberals are heathens, and that their values are responsible for our problems. They think they are modern Platos and Aristotles, like their hero Leo Strauss.
twolf1 @ 2:00 pm (#65) how about “loss loser”?
:) Appropos on so many levels …
Iran meets with China and Russia in bid to join SCO.
Not so much isolation going on with Iran and the next two largest world powers.
Heckuva job.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/n.....33,00.html
-GSD
Valid comparisons between FDL and Huffington Post can be drawn. For me, here is the difference: I think Huffington is a good site, but I forget to go there unless somebody on FDL posts a link or mentions a story. So I signed up to get an e-mail from Huffington every day as a reminder to check it out. In the case of FDL, I don’t need any reminder to come here.
Re Arainna… it is an unfortunate fact of life in america that celebrity gets attention. ICK. At least Arianna is usually saying the right things these days… and…she gets them heard… we can cut her some slack on her love affair with the trappings of fame.
I prefer the Jane Hamsher approach… she write with a knife!
Not to the point really, but I thought you could use it…. a rendition of Hail to the Chief: http://video.google.com/videop.....5801760929
NRO admits it’s a loss leader — we’ve always known it: who in her right mind can stomach bill buckley’s self-infatuated drivel?
but nyt & wapo get subventions that take the form of articles & columns prewritten by governmental flunkeys & appearing under the names of the papers’ reporters & columnists — bill keller, during the run-up to the invasion of iraq, had a column that was written by the white house — tom friedman had one as well — one reason why tom seems to be critical of bush these days is that he’s no longer getting a free feed — judith miller’s the outstanding example: although nyt had to defray part of her travel expenses — at wapo we see the subvention showing up through the writings of the public editor & through some reporters who couldn’t pay their way online
Punaise @66:
footnote fetish?
If the shoe Fitz…..
no, I’m not going to finish with the Johnny Cochran thing….
I agree with the takes about QC issues on HuffPo. Trollfestation galore. Seems like a lot of paid trolls, too, whom I call prolls. Interesting to me is the dreadful quality of postings by right wingers and corporate hos like Michael Smerconish, Joe Klein, and Mike McCurry, who are quickly cut to ribbons, then they whine and whine about how meanly they have been treated by the bloggers. My, but they hate dissent from their underwhelming attempts at cleverness and insightful commentary.
So the NRO loses money but somehow Lowry et al. get paid. Wonder if the GOP is subsidizing them in exchange for their carrying the water for the partisan hacks? BTW - when I read Byron York’s post on this matter, I had a Ronald Reagan reaction “there he goes again”. Let me say this as simply and plainly as possible: York is a serial liar when it comes to PlameGate. But then he is a serial liar when it comes to most topics as that is the primary requirement for writing to the heavily subsidized (by the GOP) NRO.
Terrific post Swopa at 2:02, thanks.
Now I feel even better about forking over $50 to FDL yesterday.
As an ex-public radio executive, may I indulge in a brief pledge break and remind FDL’s reading audience that it’s an amazing thing when even 10% of consumers using a resource like this ever contribute, even where the non-contributors consider themselves raving enthusiasts?
If you’re using but not contributing, why not mosey your mouse upward and rightwards to the appropriate links?
Ok, so you concede that there are worthy topics–”racism,” “labor”–that the free market won’t sustain. Therefore you need to lure people in with profit-makers like Plame porn and celebrities. But you think that when National Review skips the cheap sensationalism (by and large) and accepts losses which are picked up by wealthy donors who believe in the core ideals, that’s a bad thing in principle.
Have you thought through the larger implications of your point? What does the quality of, say, the evening news, or USA Today, tell you about what free market forces do to media? And before you scream about rich Republicans, do you think there aren’t privleged white rich kids working at (truly noble) foundations funded by people like George Soros? And what about The Nation, Mother Jones, the Atlantic? I’m fairly sure they all lose money. Aren’t they all disgusting perversions of the market, mainly staffed by pampered white kids? Should we excoriate them? (Or just the places you don’t agree with.) You’re making an argument I don’t think you really believe purely out of malice.
McKinney will NOT be indicted…just in from the Wolfster on CNN
jurismark @82 - have you seen the articles about paid trolls at cybersoc or peterrost? some troll commenters are paid by the word! Just like VNR’s. New opportunities abound in the loss-leader job market.
gc wall 55, Right! The Big Rubber Finger Wavers, I call them. “We’re Number One!” Yee haw.
OK, what else they got? Ideas? Noop.
CNN - grand jury declines to indict cynthia mckinney
Over the many months I’ve made recurring paeans to FDL, Redd and Jane, and the community, so I won’t get too gushy right now. I might get all verklempt.
It does bring to mind a broader question: in my consciousness the center/left blogosphere came into being* largely as a way of countering the Bush-Shit that we suffered under since 2000. What will become of us when they’re gone?
….pause….
as if we’ll ever be able to say “Mission Accomplished” and rest on any laurels. When Dems re-take control we’ll still be here to hold them accountable. And continue the pushback on wingnuttia and the media.
*not trying to launch a historical debate
Jane - I hope you don’t mind but I paid a tribute to your economic insights over at Angrybear. We economists stand humbled by your ability to explain the economics of the NRO so clearly!
Ditto…Swopa great post at Needlenose…..I think your speculation may be right on…
Per everyone else, and as usual, well said immanentize.
Bill:
you think that when National Review skips the cheap sensationalism
Does York really, truly, actually skip when he does his Plame pieces?
Interesting visual.
mommybrain@ #87, Indeed I have. It must account for why there is a hard core of them at HuffPo and elsewhere that seems to work in shifts, and pass the baton to each other at regular intervals. Same takes, same mentality, and one would have to be paid to repeat the same drivel for months on end.
So, I wonder whether this McKinney non-indictment will trigger another round of high-level discussion at chez Aravosis?
more Friday cat-blogging!
punaise, laughing so hard at Loss Leaderer.
Visual images hit me: W in lederhose, singing Strauss lieder….
DefJef at 2:03 pm - the cliquishness that seems to be developing here.
Not to be overly critical or defensive, but as I already mentioned upthread a bit, I don’t comment here a lot. But never have I been made to feel like an outsider when jumping into the conversation, (provided I have something useful to add, of course), which tells you not only something about why I post so infrequently, but also why I find the FDL community so attractive.
Bill Berry #85
Was there a point in that sticky thicket of rant?
margot - Loss Leaderer, Hosin’ us since day one.
It’s a “fixation” we use to “attract readers.” Yes, it’s called capitalism. Free enterprise.
Poor Byron’s been shilling for corporate socialism and daddy-state conservatism for so long he actually didn’t recognize your free-enterprise activities even after they bit him on the ass.
Classic.
.
Something’s going on… wolfie and Jamie McIntyre will not leave the thing alone about the 2 missing troops and 1 dead in Iraq…
Nobody ever tells us anything usually; just Stephanopolous and his silent death scroll on Sundays… Is it okay to talk about death and MIA now that the House has expressed its undying support for the war/occupation/disaster?
And everybody’s at a picnic.
Margot - SNORT! Leaderhosen?
angie 104 - I am, I said.
BillR@85 - guess you don’t read here much, or you’d know one of our chief complaints is what market forces have done to media. Oh, and you forgot Harpers, a non-profit. They’ve skipped loss-leader entirely!
Can you imagine Lowry and Byron the dork going out Fridays after work for their 2 for 1 frozen raspberry Margarittas at TGIF’S and giggling over their weeks worth of steno work from Babs Comstock.
Hee, Mary and now for a giant admission– I love Neil Diamond’s old stuff.
I also want to thank you for your insightful posts wrt Gitmo yesterday.
Bill Berry @86:
Ok, so you concede that there are worthy topics–”racism,” “labor”–that the free market won’t sustain. Therefore you need to lure people in with profit-makers like Plame porn and celebrities. But you think that when National Review skips the cheap sensationalism (by and large) and accepts losses which are picked up by wealthy donors who believe in the core ideals, that’s a bad thing in principle.
Have you thought through the larger implications of your point? What does the quality of, say, the evening news, or USA Today, tell you about what free market forces do to media?
But there’s a big difference between Plame “porn”, which in actuality is not some glossy, frivolous story but of course has to do with many very serious issues about truthtelling, warmaking, legalities, executive power, espionage, the separation of powers, etc. etc. etc., and some dipshit story on the evening news like “Doctors say chocolate improves your sex life!” In no way, shape or form can the CIA leak case be described as cheap sensationalism.
But you do make a worthy point about all the other publications that lose money. I don’t know much about the economics of magazine publishing, but certainly the New Republic could never survive without being bankrolled by Marty Peretz, (Mr. Anne Singer of Singer sewing machine fortune), nor Atlantic and National Journal without being bankrolled by David Bradley.
Mary, yes, leaderhosen, lol.
Punaise, ribs can’t take this. So glad I quit smoking, now I don’t wheeze when I read comments and laugh here.
It’s a joy, I tell ya.
Punaise 97 - Friday cat-blogging
Here’s my guys:
here
and
here
Bill Berry #85:
Each of the moderators here has a track record of success in the private sector.
I’m not intimately familiar with the bios of everyone at NRO, but even WFB himself never actually had to work a day in his life to support himself. There’s nothing quite like being lectured about free markets and the glories of making money by a bunch of quasi-intellectual moochers who couldn’t make it, you’ll excuse the expression, off the Dole.
Troll-la-la-la-la…
angie @ 2:26 pm (#105) - In the Rolling Stone interview, Murtha said that U.S. service people are now being killed at the rate of four per day. The only other metric I’ve had is The NewsHour’s “honor roll”, when they display portraits of the servicemembers who’ve been killed recently. They seem to be getting longer recently.
The four per day figure is staggering, though, and Murtha says it’s been increasing since the end of combat operations. If things continue this way, we’ll pass three thousand before November arrives. I wonder if Tony Snow’s trying to come up with a better phrase than “it’s only a number” when we hit that one. He’d better have.
We’ve been getting a Leader-Hosing since Chimpy stole his first election
punaise, I’ll see you a Caesar and raise you a Kong (my dear quat, as represented on a dear friend’s blog).
I feel like I’m watching a western and the bad guy dressed in black has just arrived and the town folk are wondering where the marshall is.
Bill Berry, porn is so alluring, because it uses the the primary symbols of reproduction. All humans are interested in reproduction. Jane in my opinion was being magnanimous and humble in referring to Plame as “porn.” Plame is a real battle with enormous consequences. Again what Jane, Christy, emptywheel, Waas, Jeff, PollyUSA,….. and others have done is to translate the battle into terms that the rest of us can understand. For example you cannot understand the Battle of Gettysburg without understanding the political context, the first Day at Culp’s Hill, the second day in the Wheatfield, the Triangle, Devil’s Den, and Little Roundtop; and the third day, Pickett’s Charge. That’s just an inaccurate extremely high altitude view of a few of the high points of the greatest battle in U.S. history that left 50,000 U.S. dead on both sides.
FDL’ers trust Jane, Christy and the others posters they select to tell the story of Plame in real time much as Matthew Brady captured the Civil War. I’m not sure if History will accord Plame as much attention as Gettysburg, but the WH used Plame to destabilize the entire Middle East, so it might. That’s what makes fdl, Kos, tnh, needlenose, HuffPo, …. such valuable realestate. We know time spent here is better spent than in the competing news organization. Nothing is stopping the traditional media from doing their job. Markets, however, reward “first movers.” Once people find something they like, they tend to stick with it. As the Plame story reaches a climax, and then begins to wind down there will be other stories to take its place. People will still come back to fdl, ….not for the “porn,” but because we trust the analysis.
twolf1 - way too cute, those symmetrical kitties