It is I!

FITZ!

I got me a “0″!

fitz

dagnabit. but i do love ya, imman.

a “0″ visible only to the first poster fleetingly is the private award to the swift…

Good on ya for the zero. Weird iddnit?

0
0
0
0
added together equals zero

now immantize, let’s see ya get a “Drum Major for Justice” trophy!

That’s great! If I were in NY, I’d be there.

*ilson,

How did you know I was a “bandy?”

I didn’t get a “0″ - where’s the complaint department?

Just kidding. Really. Kidding, I was.

What’s a bandy?
Oh and Kazuza.

One time, at BAND camp…..

Pretty awesome honor for him,I think I know of a few other Bloggers in line for some major props.That ought to be headline material, if only.

Pentagon blocks windfarm. They need to study the turbines effects on radar….

Once again, the military industrial complex used to stymie ingenuity.

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/489003.html

-GSD

Okay, imman, now nip back downstairs a sec to collect your shout-out from me . . .

Meanwhile, what went with the Refresh Comments button? Y’all’s missing too, or just mine?

I fear this latest development. The netroots need and deserve attention because it is a new force in American politics. However, we don’t need a new class of “the anointed pundits”. Markos has been great in helping to build this thing but he is not “the netroots”. He and his site are just a part of it.

We might be beginning to fall into the trap of the MSM, where approved “pundits” speak for the whole, whether it be the R or the D. Let’s not do that and continue to “crash the gate”.

It’s a nail biter in VA.

1,803 out of 2,403 precincts reporting 75.03%

Vote Totals %
Webb 57,913 52.33
Miller 52,764 47.67

-GSD

Is it “a ‘O’” or “an ‘O’”??

EPU’d and in moderation below, so I’m going to break it up into pieces and repost it here.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

http://tinyurl.com/o9xr5

Appellate courts grill over secret docs.

A federal appeals court panel in Manhattan questioned a lawyer for the federal government yesterday as to whether the Central Intelligence Agency had a legitimate national security interest in refusing to confirm or deny the existence of documents authorizing it to detain and interrogate terrorism suspects overseas.

Just when you think you’ve seen it all, though, something new comes out.

We’ve had the “secret law” case http://www.postgazette.com/pg/05058/462446.stm
Gilmore v. Gonzales, where a guy was told he was violating a law %u2013 when he asked which one, well, that was a secret.

Markos has an impressive biography, gonna have to finally buy a copy of Crashing the Gate…

I was somewhat chagrined, I checked a number of Chapters/Indigo bookstores in Toronto this week to find that none of the had CtG in stock.

Love Wynton Marsalis though, had a friend, a jazz-musician-moonlighting as a respirology specialist who was played with Wynton a few times, wish I had seen them together, apparently they put on quite a show.

Markos will be the next Wonkette. From TIME:

[…]Moulitsas does know he has become the face of the netroots, though he insists that it’s a position he has inherited only by default. The left lacks many telegenic spokespeople, he says. “It’s the difference between the Fox News anchors %u2014 you know, blond, put-together %u2014 and our people. It’s like, ‘You know, lady, put on a bra. Would it kill you to put on a bra?’” Moulistas is sponsoring a media training session at Yearly Kos; one can only hope that Maidenform is on the agenda[…]

http://tinyurl.com/o3tt9

Kiss my bra-less ass Moulitsas, go ahead & drool over the bottle-blond neo-Nazis on Fox fool. Sorry your fame has gone to your tiny head.

Well, I have things to do. I hope everyone has a pleasant evening.

smiley…I saw Markos on tv the other day and I think he did a pretty good job of saying that “he” is not the netroots. He seemed very humble and very forthright about the fact that the netroots is a grassroots movement.

If the pudits spin it otherwise…not sure what to do but from what I have seen thus far he is not spinning himself as such.

We’ve had the “your own words are a secret from you” case with Padilla recently.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/ne.....6may26,0,7 850867.story?coll=sfla-news-broward

His lawyers are cleared to hear what he had to say — but he’s not. So they can’t talk about it. You know, what he ALREADY talked about. Using his own vocal chords and all. But what he said, it’s a secret from him. If you’ve ever sat through a Pentecostal service, you’ll know where they got that idea.

Virginia:

with 82% of all precincts reporting:

Webb, the good guy 65,738
Miller, other guy 58,398

WOO! HOO! HOO! OH yeah.

Mary,

Open and honest government and a judicial system that is based on the rule of law are so damn pre-9/11.

Now swallow this pill and report to the reprogramming center stat.

-Big Brother

[snoopy dance]

Well deserved, Markos.

Egregious,

I am pulling for Webb too. Many are skeeved out by his former Republican status…just like the defectors in Kansas, I think it shows momentum for the D’s and it also shows that people do change.

Go Webb.

-GSD

immanentize @ 2:

Was it good for you?

Webb might be ‘better’ but he still supports “Don’t ask, don’t tell.”

Smiley 17,

I couldn’t agree more, this movement is in its infancy and it should be very interesting how it matures and how it changes for the good or the bad.
I noticed that Kos banned two popular posters because they were sockpuppets and I can understand that. But what happens when others with behavior problems like “margaret” at this blog are banned and these blogs become cliquish. I think it wouldn’t take a whole lot to tear down what everyone has struggled to build. Shouldn’t we have a bloggers ethics panel for real?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13303208/from/RS.5/

Link to an article that takes up the musical question- “Does GW Clusterfuck’s visit to Iraq help to confirm the Iraqi perception that the Prime Minister is a Puppet?”

Let’s send the Iraqis some Howdy Doody reruns- and some film clips of the US puppets in Viet Nam.

This one has to take the cake, though.

http://tinyurl.com/o9xr5

Lawyer: Judge, we have a really goooooooooood argument, let me tell. Really good stuff.

Court: Bring it on puppy (or something like that)

Lawyer: Really GOOD reasons why we are right!

Court: Alrightyyyyyy! Dish!

Lawyer: Uh, it’s just that, well, ummm, you’ll have to trust me on this one, your Honor.

Court: Saywha?

Lawyer: Our rationale – it’s, uh, classified - good stuff – reasons so good, they’re secret. But trust me, if you knew what our argument was, it you’d like it.

Ok, maybe a bit exaggerated. You decide.

Although oral arguments in the appeals court are often delivered in legal shorthand, yesterday’s seemed even more opaque than usual. Almost apologetically, Mr. Skinner told the judges he was “somewhat constrained” in his ability to explain his argument and “connect the dots” because some of the C.I.A.’s reasoning in the case was classified.

Is it possible we are just living the season finale of Dallas II? When the CIA and some chick name Victoria who sells thongs cite the same sources — my brain screams (what it screams is a secret though).

As the hearing came to a close, Judge Joseph M. McLaughlin made a joke about the obscurity, quoting a Jesuit logician, Father John Gerard, who in 1597 told a British interrogator: “I do not know where he is. But if I did, I could not and would not tell you.”

The Jesuit doctrine of equivocation, Judge McLaughlin said, “lives on.”

Somehow I have a hard time framing rendition and torture and violation of laws and treaty as an extension of the Jesuit tradition, but then again, I don’t have much imagination

You know that phrase, ‘drinking from the firehose’, well it seems that the volume and irascibility of commentary could be spiking somewhat, especially the recent bursts prior to YKos and the extra press it generated, are bound to put a strain on the mental bandwidth of the regular FDL moderation team.

I hope you guys (Christy, Jane, Pach, et al.) hang in there. I may not be a valued commentator here, but I do value FDL and its commentary.

I also hope that I am not already considered a troll commentator, I do not mean to be taken that way.

My refresh comments box is gone too.

Mary: I chortled at the Jesuit answer. Back in 1974 I was visited by the FBI inquiring about the whereabouts of a leftish fugitive. That was precisely the answer I gave them!

Webb up by 9000 with 90% of the vote. Webb reached out to the netroots early, and it looks like it may have paid off for him ….

It was fun to break it up, but the flow flew. I should have done typos while I was at it. *s*

Egregious - if it’s Webb for you, it’s Webb for me. If he can handle Allen, that would be something.

BTW, I bet Liebermann doesn’t sleep well tonight. Snort.

*ilson, He’s not perfect, but he does have the philosophy that the government stops at your front door. That includes the strange combination of being pro reproductive rights, gay rights, and gun ownership rights. In Virginia it seems an odd combination, but it just might be the right coalition to defeat George Allen, thereby thwarting Allen’s presidential bid and helping take back the Senate for Democrats.

Coalition politics…have we forgotten how to do this?

Webb: the new netroots victory!!!

Mary @ 5:30 would that be Victoria Clark?

It’s official. AP calls it for Webb …

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s.....TE=DEFAULT

Mary 24 LOL
I have had that experience. All I could think of was the passage in…Corinthians something where it says you have to have an interpreter present. I wanted to ask where the damn interpreter was! But was aware that would look bad….

OK, back from my son’s bath (did I do that right?) And I am serious — we should start a MacArthur Grant nomination for Jane and Christy.

They are, truly, geniuses in an important new media/medium (which is ALL message).

egregious: please don’t forget that I voted for ‘Democrat’ Evan Bayh first as Secretary of State, then Governor, now as Senator. He won’t ever get my vote in a Presidential Primary!

Is it possible we are just living the season finale of Dallas II?

Of course, I’ve known that for years. Well, since November 2000….

Old Sow - I was thinking more of a mallrat, but you have a point.

Laws: Secret from you.
Your own words: Secret from you
Reasons why we can do this: Secret from the court.

Sheezfreakinlouise. May they all rot in a hell so secret no prayers can find their souls to save them.

Maryann 45 AP calls it for Webb,

Well, egregious already called it for Webb!!

WOO HOO!!!!

[snoopy dance]

Go netroots!!!!!!!!!

Hi, all. Just put in a new Late Nite post, or a draft thereof. Hope some of you will be around to enjoy it.

And if you hate it, I’ll just say in advance that JANE MADE ME DO IT! I was afraid not to! She threatened me that (What was it Wolcott said?), oh, right, the Cruel Lash would be my Crimson Reward! Eeeeeek!!

non-sequitor: Margot, I have a friend with the funniest story about ending up at Pentecostal service and just when you think she can’t make the story any funnier there is an appearance by a guy with a Ram’s horn - that is a working horn, in the ‘blow it’ sense if not in the ’still attached to the ram’ sense. Just a guy, over a few pews, who blows his ram’s horn now and then. I believe her infant is briefly kidnapped from her as well.

egregious, the whole former Secretary of the Navy bit might help in Norfolk also.

President Albert Gore will be on CNN Larry King in 10 minutes.

lotus thanks,

y’know, with this recent rash (word choice) of concern trolls and prudish school marms (Addison anyone? Ever?), I have been laughing non-stop for two days (OK some inappropriate moements of anger). Let me just say:

I really love Firedoglake.

A lot! Thanks all.

Primary Day here in Maine, and some good candidates (and strong, we hope) in the Senatorial race for the seat O. Snowe occupies. Here, in my little town of 2000, we vote at the town hall. I went by at about 8:30 AM, and no signs the polls were open. Didn’t think too much of it because sometimes they’re only open 1-7pm–maybe for town elections.

But I went by twice more before I remembered again it was election day, so I stopped in. The handswritten sign on the door said polls open 8AM-7 (or8)PM, short memory here.

My first comments were to the two people who run the Town Hall, and I said in a very loud voice that all the poll workers could hear…”so why isn’t the “Voting Day, Polls Open” sign out there to remind us all?” There was an embarrassed silence, and then a lame comment about the wind blowing it over and another about people driving into the sign. I said “that’s not good enough, there are enough problems with voter apathy” and went to vote.

Shortly thereafter the sign appeared in front of Town Hall.

But it does make you wonder about town office managers who hate the fuss and bother of election day, and the long hours and the absence of the sign at the curb.

hey imman! party with us!

Webb wins, can defeat George Allen.

OH yeah, OH yeah.

WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Netroots RULE.

Someone say, “cruel lash?”

Severin, severin, speak so slightly
Severin, down on your bended knee
Taste the whip, in love not given lightly
Taste the whip, now plead for me

I am tired, I am weary
I could sleep for a thousand years
A thousand dreams that would awake me
Different colors made of tears

come to think of it: I must have had a deficient education — I have read of Addison and Steele but never seen any of their famous literary works…

Just a word about Kos. I have been very impressed and even inspired by the way he has handled himself in his encounters with the innane MSM. He always stays steady and sane and focused on the real issues no matter what the question or how much they try to prod him into getting angry. He is just great.

Wooo Hooo!!! Webb!!!

[Imm does the dance of the kid at the Snoopy Christmas where his hands stick straight out and his head goes up and down and he’s kinda walking in place!!!!]

I sense that the netroots has its celebs and this may not be a good development in the end. Because these celebs get the big mic and their voices are heard the loudest… and they may not be the wisest.

The blog is more open to rising stars, but stars they are and stars they are treated as. It is the american way.

MsAnnaNOLA: didn’t say he did but he seems to be enjoying it — not that there’s anything wrong with that. What we’re witnessing here has been documented in a famous “philsophy of science” book called The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn. In it, he explains how science progresses through a series of “paradigm shifts”. I think the paradigm is shifting in journalism, especially political journalism. The old paradigm is natrually going to try to force the new paradigm into its self image. Thus, the elavation of Markos, and others, to the spokepersons, or symbols, the pundits, or representatives of this “new” movement. We must resist it and continue to build a new paradigm, i.e, crash the gates.

Brainfaht: yes, I agree that we must resist the cliqueishness. I hate that about many of the comment threads, like this one, that I lurk on (usually). It’s inevitable but not necessarily always bad. Just usually.

Defjef,

I share your concern sometimes, but what I believe is that the netroots are sufficiently anti-cult-of-personality that the moment one becomes a celebrity is the moment one begins to lose credibility. What I mean is, that this community is much more interested in honoring recent actions than past conquests. The opposite of the Reagan pagans.

“waddya done fer me lately?”

OT - Vodooo spec - what if Rove already has a pardon? I guess a President could classify a pardon, couldn’t he? Can’t really indict someone who’s pardoned, can you or talk about it if the President tells you it’s classified? Maybe I do have an imagination after all. Secret laws, secret legal reasoning, secret words you’ve already said — what’s a secret pardon in the mix?

imman at 63 “Imm does the dance of the kid at the Snoopy Christmas where his hands stick straight out and his head goes up and down and he’s kinda walking in place”

Wine spew!! Come on over, I’ll teach you how to dance.

Webb wins statewide at approx 53%. In our district, where we kicked some serious *ss, he won at 67%. PEOPLE: YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

………more snoopy dancing………..

BTW: I love FDL, too. The Rove non-indictment is just a speed-bump on our highway to impeachment. So, slap your knees and say “damn!”, shed a tear or two, then say fuck it and get back to doing the things that have made this and other progressive sites so great. We have a great community here. Let’s not falter in the face of a paltry disappointment. The Plame investigation is far from over. Bush’s errand-boy skated this time, but I have heard no fat lady sing.

Chins up, Firedogs. This movement is too good to fracture over internecine squabblings, y’hear?

Signing off - but Markos is WONDERFUL on the shows. He just comes across as happy and adorable and people centered.

i just gave money to Webb.

helps wash the rove news out of my hair.

oh Mary that is so devious. I buy it. Secrecy has been the hallmark of this administration and this congress.

Mary @ 67, that’s a terrifying thought. And twisted enough to be true, since we’re talking about the Bush regime. I really, really want you to be wrong. (No offense, ok?)

Mary, hahahah! OK, I’m thinking of things that happened but nothing that funny.

smiley

I agee with your paradigm shift references. But, Re: cliques. That word can either refer to a loaded concept of class and popularity organization from high school — or a serious organization of political strength in the partisan (like partisan fighter) sense. I suspect you are stuck in the fear of the first, and do not yet see the advantages of the latter.

oh yeah…new thread on labor if anyone is interested….

Mary @ 67. Perhaps, but I do not think that a “secret pardon” would be accepted by a court — doesn’t that violate the sixth public trial clause? I mean a real pardon, rather than an executive order to prohibit prosecution? But we all agree that order would be illegal as inevitably conflicted.

Sorry for the O/T: I don’t know if anyone has heard, but Ned Lamont picked up another endorsement: American Federation of Teachers, CT. Yay!
http://nedlamont.com/blog/329/.....dorses-ned

new thread

Mui! Long time no laughing-at-Lieberman!

*ilson46201 says “I have read of Addison and Steele but never seen any of their famous literary works%u2026″
June 13th, 2006 at 5:55 pm

You would have read some of their works (The Spectator, for example) in your high school or college English literature courses.

I honestly find the idea that the famously fractious progressive netroots would ever be tempted to rally unthinkingly behind some GREAT BLOG LEADER laughable in the extreme.

Just today I’ve been called on this blog all kinds of names. Today, I’m the devil incarnate for some here today. I’m laughing my ass off. And Jane is Cruella de Ville.

Some here keep accusing of of failing to take them seriously when we create a space for them to say all kinds of things in the comments, within reason (nothing racist, don’t abuse people in the community), even as we have the audacity to take them seriously enough to engage them in discussion and debate.

If we didn’t take you seriously, we’d ban you or shut down comments altogether. This ain’t Powerline. I relaize irony is dead when Judy Miller accuses others of bad reporting, but still. . .

Oh I think Bob Adams has some comments on Lamont’s new endorsement:
http://ctbob.blogspot.com/
I wasn’t aware we supporters were being called weirdos and fringe. Hmmm. . .
Hi immanentize!

TRex, please check in at the Service Desk.

Mary,
left a reply to your long post at the bottom of the last thread. Please check there.

Also ,the maybe Rove had a premeptive pardon thing?

it’s as good an explaination for Sealed v. Sealed as I’ve seen today. *g*

looseheadprop-
left a request for you at end of last thread re: Mitch’s post

T-

imman, what instrument do you play?

I like the democratic nature of blog comments and kos people promote well written diaries to the “front page” and that IS a good thing… but the cult of personality seems to be upon us nevertheless.

immanentize: here’s the definition of “clique” from encarta:

“exclusive group: a close group of friends or coworkers with similar interests and goals, whom outsiders regard as excluding them.”

Just read though this thread and ask yourself if this definition applies — especially in regard to the last phrase. That’s what I worry about concerning blogs — lefty blogs especially considering how few righty blogs allow comments. If the blog paradigm is going to be anything more than a “discussion group” ultimatly, then, well, I don’t know. It’s probably inevitable, just like is was with usenet/ AOL/ compuserve, etc. Communities develop by people interacting with each other. Maybe I should just chill. Cliqueishness, however, should be resisted and inclusiveness encouraged. And maybe Jane should be a little more tolerant too. Except for smug, self-rightous bitches, of course (will I be called one for mildly scolding FDL commenters for cliqueishness? I can hardly wait to find out!).

egregious, more like, what instrument DID I play:

Bombardino de gamba:

http://bandamusicalgondomar.no.....ardino.htm

smiley, whose blog is it? If it’s your blog you can say whatever you want and run things however you want. Otherwise?

And yes, I do have my own blog where I rant on without regard to what other people may think.

imman, that’s what my son played. What a beautiful instrument. Me: piano; flute and piccolo–Carnegie Hall, Kennedy Center; vocal w solo work at church; emergency backup organist, playing barefoot. But they have to be desperate.

I am sorry if anyone feels excluded, but it this is definately NOT an exclusive society. We are bound together (usually but not exclusively) by a deep interest in our place in th elarger society. Right now, that also translates into a keen shared interest in current political and social events.

But exclusive? Sure there are friends here with longish relationships who remember and refer to past conversations [and some are more extroverted than others :~)] But “excluding” others? That feels more like a personal issue rather than an FDL reality to me. But, that’s what makes horse races!

well…I was the sound tech for the first synthesizer orchestra performing an electronic Mass at the National Cathedral, Library of Congress, churches in Boston & NYC, etc …at the LoC all the equipment went dead an hour before a live broadcast of opening night…that frantic hour of repair is seared forever in my psyche!

My G-d egregious! You are everything! I am so glad you are you and here and get me tickets next time you perform.

And please teach me to dance!

*ilson. Ouch.

I recently heard the most interesting thing about moog and Switched-on Bach — that every note was recorded individually.

Sheeeiit!

T-left a reply for you at end of last thread

egregious: sorry if I said something that offended you. And sorry if I made the mistake of poking a little fun at Jane. I obviously have no comedic touch. I don’t want a flame war and I won’t participate in one. Please accept my apoligies for not understanding that some things, like blog ownership, are sacred and beyond criticism.

immanentize: Agreed. Anyone can post here and I didn’t express myself well at all. It still reminds me of usenet, however…

concerning switched-on Bach: the moog at the time was not polyphonic but did have a keyboard so individual lines could be recorded on a multichannel tape machine and then assembled into chords. there were no ’stops’ for change of voicing - each segment had to be spliced together after stopping and readjusting the knobs…laborious yet the product was eminently musical.

I just watched the news of the president speaking to the troops in Baghdad with the sound off– my stomach turns these days when I hear Dubya speak.
The expression on his face was one I have not yet seen from this man : regret. I think he knows that every American soldier presently in Iraq will be lucky to get out alive. Heck, this guy has been able to snark a smirk in the face of the World Trade Center and Katrina debacles. Look at the Newshour tape. Something serious is up and the president could not hide it. Iraq’s new government may not wait for the U.S. to decide that it’s ready to run things from the fortress on the Tigris. I sincerely hope the Crawford Village Idiot is just exhausted by all the lies but they’ve never gotten to him before so why would they now?

looseheadprop (and Mary too, if she’s here)

Good to hear from you - left a message back at the last thread.

Robert Moog was a personal friend of the chair of the music department at my college. Even though it was a small college in central PA, we had one of the most advanced electronic music labs on the east coast, including a complete (at the time) Moog synthesizer, various half-inch reel-to-reel recorders, mixers, equilizers, studio monitors etc. It was monophonic so if you wanted polyphonic or harmonic stuff, you had to dub it using the tape recorders, etc. The lab was housed in the college chapel that was at the far end of the quad. We could, and did, “entertain/haunt” our fellow students with very loud entertaining and haunting sounds. Ah, the good old days…

smiley, no problem, just wanted to keep other people from making MY mistake when I first came onto the blog. It feels like a public space, but need to remember that it was developed and managed by a particular person, and they do have some inherent rights. We may freely speak, but they may freely not so much like what we say. I learned [ouch] rather the hard way not to criticize directly the posters. Criticize ideas yes, people, no.

Re Moog, I met him in conjunction with my work with a commission on the handicapped, where his expertise on speech recognition was very valuable. Nice guy.

Imman, I’m waiting. Are you coming over?

*ilson46201 and I remember the same era of electronic music.

On topic

Having just spent 3 1/2 days in a convention with Markos (and 1,000 other people), I did not perceive any sense of grandiosity or lust for power about him. He seemed very friendly, open and I would say modest. My only actual conversation with him was at a book-signing, but I found him very approachable and just pleasant to be around. I did not see him moving around surrounded by guards or aides like I did Sen. Reid or Gov. Warner. He just did not come across as someone who was trying to elevate himself to some elite, exclusionary position of power in the blogosphere or in the world of politics. I think he is very deserving of the award. I would be interested in hearing other people’s perspectives.

Markos deserves every accolade coming his way. The way he handled himself on Meet the Press had to make every blogger proud. That said, we need to remind ourselves that the blogosphere is much different than it was two years ago and will be different five months from now depending on what the fruits of our labors have borne. It will have to be revaluated again in two years for the general election.

If we become more powerful it is only natural that we will have to deal with the problems that it will bring, and don’t even bring up ego look what it did to Lieberman.

Thanks Jane. I bought a ticket.

And nice post on Holy Joe and the rest of the Senators who ignored our faxes and phone calls.

I think we’ve had the internets since AOL first started up.What’s that,maybe 12 or 13 yrs?I,being the anti-techie had to be dragged kicking and screaming to a computer screen,so I was a bit slower to catch up than my hubby has been.So it’s been 6 or 7 yrs for me.

I was a community moderator at ivillage.com(a woman’s website with message boards for a bunch of topics)for a couple of years and saw alot of stuff happen to various online communities.I’d say the good stuff way outran the bad,but there are pitfalls to any group of humans gathering in any place-real or cyber-to do anything.

Not all of us are leaders.Someone like me for example,wouldn’t be the best leader,I tend to mother everyone,too much(ask my kids,lol).And drive myself crazy making sure everyone is comfy,or at least included.Sometimes you can’t do that,plus it can eat up valuable time that’s needed for other things.(but,I ended up forming a little group of people willing to work with those feeling left behind a little,that spared the whole community a big headache sometimes)

But we do need leaders(for lack of a better word this minute-pre coffee-as I wave at Christy,lol),if we didn’t need them,then Progressive politics would be more of the norm rather than the exception.I don’t know that I’d call Markos a leader as much as I would someone who’s trying to clear the path a little so others can make it to the gate a little quicker.

Something that has worked for me in the past,in my moderator days,was to ask people who were feeling left out,or who were worried about getting too big too fast “What are you afraid of?What’s the fear behind your concerns?How do you think we can work past your fear to reach the goal we’re working on?”It makes people think about their criticism,or what might have happened to them to make them afraid.Now,this doesn’t always work,but it can de-rail and allay some people’s fears.Sometimes they are just scared of change,and that can be fixed.(actual trolls,not so much)I used to give them jobs to do too,be it research,or contacting organizations and people pertaining to the topic at hand,it takes away some of that helplessness that lies at the heart of their fears.

Anyhoo,good for Markos for putting a face on TV and presenting himself as someone who’s smart and savvy.We need that,but as long as we remember that’s not ALL we need,we’ll win out.

Thanks for the great post Jane.
Hope people will also check out the DMIblog (www.dmiblog.com)
Its a public policy blog we run at DMI. DMI’s fellows - all grassroots leaders for social justice as our regular posters. We have policy people and people from the grassroots weighing in on important public policy news and ideas every day so do stop over.