
The administration whose new spokesman can't even define what a civil right is has reaffirmed its support of the Federal Marriage Amendment today. And I say, thank god, given the reality of the threat to America's wholesome, heterosexual marriages posed by the Gay Agenda. "Marriage in this country is under attack!" shrieks Bill Frist and the Rightards come running. I personally know several otherwise happily married straight couples whose marriages have been brutally attacked by packs of raving Activist Judges in the last few weeks alone. This real and present danger to our way of life must be stopped at once.
Oddly enough, though, word has reached us that Bush himself "doesn't give a sh*t about gay marriage", according to an anonymous source in this Newsweek article. In fact, Bush has several gay people on his staff, and they were instrumental to his rise to power . So, what is the Deciderer's real motivation here? Politics. It is clearly shaping up to be a difficult election year for the GOP. Everything they've touched has turned to shit. Bush has kind of a reverse-Midas energy going, here, as his poll numbers sink lower and lower. So, having screwed the proverbial pooch (Are ya listening, Li'l Ricky Santorum? We know that kind of talk gets you all hot and bothered.) on the War on Terror, Port Security, Immigration, the economy, the War in Iraq, Social Security, gas prices, and human animal hybrids, the Reich Wing is going to the last well on its property, Bashing The Gays. Never mind how many times they've been to that particular well before. It's the last straw they could clutch, last gas station before the freeway, the last hope they have to turn out their mouth-breathing, slope-headed, knuckle dragging base of rock-throwing villagers, and disgustingly, it seems to be working. Conservatives love their Boy King again! He's beating up on the faggots! And who doesn't love that?
What I have to ask, though, is who these gay republicans on Chimpy McFlightsuit's staff and party roster are and how they can continue to support an administration that clearly seeks to undermine their rights as citizens? We hear a great deal of whispering and finger-pointing about Ken Mehlman, Ralphie Reed, Scott McClellan, David Dreier, Duke Cunningham, Michael Ames, Paul Dickerson, Santorum's recently outed chief advisor Bob Traynham and more, including (and yes, it makes me cringe, too) Karl Rove. And who can forget everybody's favorite Man Ho, Jeff Gannon/Jim Guckert? Or that veritable ingenue of purpose and conviction, Mary Cheney?
Who are these people, that they can rise from their beds every day and look at themselves in the mirror knowing that they are undermining themselves and every other gay man and lesbian in this country? That while they are content to gather crumbs from underneath the tables of the powerful, they are stripping themselves and their brothers and sisters of their rights?
How can they do it? Does the cognitive dissonance ever make their ears ring or, you know, give them migraines?
I have thought long and hard about it and still it baffles me. What does it take to make someone a Jew for Hitler, a negro for slavery, a woman for Reagan, i.e., a Gay Republican?
For a while, I thought it was just another case of Repugnican "Do as I say, not as I do" thinking, but after much thought, and a careful reading of this intriguing kos diary by Padraig Pearse, it has gradually dawned on me that the reason these people have become collaborators with the enemy is much the same as any occupied people's. They don't care whose side they're on, as long as they're winning, for one thing. It enables them to reap the benefits of being in the ruling party and also indulges their deeply held feelings of shame and unworthiness. For you see, these people like to party like it's 1959. Padraig says:
That many Gay Republicans should prefer the closety games of the 1950s over the open Gay culture that arose out of the post Stonewall era should come as no surprise. They are reactionaries after all. In fact, I know Gay men of a certain age and income who routinely excoriate "the fags" while nonetheless indulging appetites and behaviours that would leave Margaret Sperling's head spinning. But since the lights are out in their orgy rooms, good Republicans are happy to just overlook and pretend not to see. It is the public avowal of affection that makes them crazy over the gay marriage issue. To compare Gay marriage to a perversion, as right next to bestiality is on the face of it insane. Gay people seeking to have stable monogamous relationships accepted into their families and their communities are, in key respects, far more conservative and traditional than the many gays in the republican party who scuttle around in the shadows, procuring illicit sex and using sites like MilitaryEscortM4M.com.
And then, suddenly, it all makes perfect sense to me. These people like the lies, the façades, the illicit nature of The Love that Dare Not Speak its Naaaaaame. They like their homosexuality to be all about sex and nothing more. Furtive meetings and assignations, sex in public cruising areas, marriages of convenience. The whole notion of changing diapers, balancing checkbooks, buying a house, keeping a family clothed, educated, and nourished? Anathema to the Gay Republican. Why would you want to tutor your child in spelling when you could be doing poppers in a bath house with some anonymous hustler or playing poker with a military escort (*cough*!) at the Watergate?
Once when I was a very young gay man, I was told by a certain Old Queen to give up on my notions of finding a loving partner and settling down into a real relationship. "Men cannot truly fall in love with each other," he told me, "We're incapable of monogamous relationships. So, enjoy the sex, enjoy your friends, but don't expect to find a relationship like your parents have. It doesn't work that way for us."
Fortunately, I saw this advice for exactly the steaming pile of horseshit that it was. "That may be true for you," I said, "But it's different now. My generation doesn't have the psychic and spiritual wounds that yours does. You have internalized their hate and turned it on yourself."
Said Old Queen patted me indulgently on the head and assured me that I would find out in time. I was 16, then, and while I am single now, I have had deep and loving relationships with other men and I look forward to more when the time is right. But it's precisely this sort of attitude, whether among the "Christian" Right, or among our own people, that must be smashed if we are to overcome this glaring assault on the rights and privacy of all Americans. Fortunately, the FMA probably won't even make it out of the Senate. Unfortunately, we get to spend the next little while watching it bring all the baying monsters out to spew their vile, nonsensical rhetoric of hate and exclusion. I can only pray that this might be the beginning of the end of ever having to hear about it again.
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fitz!
fitz
ROOTS! TOM ! Your Naked !
What’s a popper? Can I have one?
No, Tart. You don’t want a popper. They’re nasty.
Trex- I am going to repost something from Bobby G on an earlier thread: comment at http://www.firedoglake.com/200.....ent-130960
==%u2026Gallup asked 1,003 Americans to say - without any prompting from the pollsters - what should be the “top priority for the president and Congress to deal with.” Here is the complete tally of responses:
Situation in Iraq/war: 42 percent.
Fuel/oil prices/lack of energy sources/the energy crisis: 29 percent.
Immigration/illegal aliens: 23 percent.
Economy in general: 14 percent.
Poor healthcare/hospitals; high cost of healthcare: 12 percent.
Terrorism: 4 percent.
Education/poor education/access to education: 4 percent.
Federal budget deficit/federal debt: 3 percent.
Unemployment/jobs: 3 percent.
Taxes: 3 percent.
Social Security: 2 percent.
International issues/problems: 2 percent.
National security: 2 percent.
Environment/pollution: 2 percent.
Medicare: 2 percent.
Foreign aid/focus overseas: 2 percent.
Poor leadership/corruption/dissatisfaction with government/ Congress/politicians/candidates: 2 percent.
Poverty/ hunger/ homelessness: 1 percent.
Ethics/moral/religious/family decline; dishonesty; lack of integrity: 1 percent.
Natural disaster relief/funding: 1 percent.
Trade deficit/foreign trade: 1 percent.
High cost of living/inflation: 1 percent.
Unifying the country: Less than .5 percent.
Judicial system/courts/laws: Less than .5 percent.
Abortion: Less than .5 percent
Lack of money: Less than .5 percent.
Gap between rich and poor: Less than .5 percent.
Other: 1 percent.
No opinion: 4 percent.
_____
Gay marriage didn’t even make the list, LOL. (Bobby G) =====
~Sorry this is long, but worth repeating. VG
WAITAMINUTE….
You’re GAY!??!?
Does Mom know?!
Best. Title. Ever.
Mark Thoma at Economist’s View has nailed the Congressional perspective (wonk alert, of sorts):
The Legislation Possibilities Curve.
Actually, commenter Richard over there, at the end of the thread, has a point. That’s not a social curve that Thoma has drawn, but a strictly Rovian sort of one.
At a time of record gas prices, record deficits, a quagmire in Iraq, saber-rattling in Iran, economic uncertainty, and all sorts of other ills, the Senate has set aside a full week to debate a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage.
Man are they pissin their pants
The wing-nut blogger self-image, a photo illustration:
http://www.nacholibre.com/
I am a straight, single, old, white girl and it is posts like this that make me love this place. You go TRex! Awesome post. Have lots of gay friends I am going to send this to. You rock!
Sorry my above post at 10 should have included a hat tip to Kos..
Off Topic but Important–Breaking News
In the supermarket checkout line today, I noticed The Globe was running this:
BUSH DIVORCE TALKS
“No one thought it would go this far.”
Where’s the New York Times? This story is “out there.” They told us about the Clintons’ marriage, now it’s time for the Bushes.
New York Times? Hello?
Back in the 1980s and 90s, a gay a cappella group called “The Flirtations” picked up a song by Fred Small called “Everything Possible” and used it to close their concerts. These concerts were full of tight harmonies, lots of laughter, occasional bursts of anger - in short, a lot like FDL, now that I think about it. At the end, though, things would get serious, as one of the Flirts would introduce Fred Small’s song like this: “Try to imagine how different you might be - how different the world might be - if more parents sang lullabies like this to their children. . .”
We have cleared off the table, the leftovers saved,
washed the dishes and put them away
I have told you a story, and tucked you in tight
at the end of your knock-about day
As the moon sets its sail to carry you to sleep,
over the midnight sea
I will sing you a song no one sang to me;
may it keep you good company:
You can be anybody that you want to be;
you can love whomever you will.
You can travel any country where your heart leads
and know I will love you still.
You can live by yourself;
You can gather friends around.
You can choose one special one
and the only measure of your words and your deeds
will be the love you leave behind when you’re gone.
Some girls grow up strong and bold;
some boys are quiet and kind
Some race on ahead;
some follow behind;
some grow in their own space and time
Some women love women and some men love men;
some raise children and some never do
You can dream all the day, never reaching the end
of everything possible for you.
Don’t be rattled by names, by taunts or games,
but seek out spirits true.
If you give your friends the best part of yourself,
they will give the same back to you.
You can be anybody that you want to be;
you can love whomever you will
You can travel any country where your heart leads
and know I will love you still.
You can live by yourself;
You can gather friends around.
You can choose one special one
and the only measure of your words and your deeds
will be the love you leave behind when you’re gone;
will be the love you leave behind when you’re gone.
At the end of the song, almost everyone was singing along, and almost everyone was a bit moist in the eyes.
I’ve sung several lullabies to my four year old son, and this one still brings tears to my eyes. “Daddy, why are you crying?” The Flirtations have since disbanded, and their lead singer died of AIDS, so you can’t see them in concert, but their CDs are still around.
For those Firepups heading to bed shortly (or not so shortly for that matter), pleasant dreams.
I know more than a few gay Republicans. They seem to feel that you can’t be gay and respectable at the same time — their insecurities are astounding.
They claim they’re Republicans because of “taxes” or “big government”, but each and everyone of them is terrified that someone will identify them with drag queens or dykes on bikes — as if you can’t be gay and establish your own identity.
Gotta go…night all….
“Im leaving on a jet plane…
Jane…remember those lyrics?
These people like the lies, the faades, the illicit nature of…Furtive meetings and assignations, sex in public cruising areas, marriages of convenience.
Hey, TR, the hetero Republicans like their sex this way, too, basically. The secrecy, the assignation, the perversions behind closed doors–Look, it’s Bill Bennet with a Dom! While his good little wife sits at home, frigid from neglect. Or fucking the pool boy. Or having a lesbian affair because he’s made sure she could never fake it with a man again.
I don’t know what fuels this impulse, perhaps a negative parent telling them all the time that sex was bad, when their bodies knew it felt so good. I just knew that I didn’t want a part of it.
these people like to party like it’s 1959
It’s kind of like Catholic schoolgirls and sex I guess. I think it’s one thing to be self-loathing and think nobody who is gay deserves to have rights (except ones’ self for being willing to rat out your own kind, a la the “queen bee” syndrome amongst women and I do mean you Phyllis Schlafley) but quite another to stand for gay rights, as Mary Cheney purportedly does, and still believe in the GOP. I don’t care what Dubya says, he just wants to stay at arms’ length from the kooks. He’d put anyone into camps tomorrow to preserve his own power, he has no principles. It doesn’t take a particularly bright bulb to figure out that the Republicans have consolidated power by hunting and persecuting gay people. There is no room for “gay rights” in the modern Republican party, so I think you could be quite right — it’s the expression of a desire to party like it’s 1959.
http://www.hrcactioncenter.org.....marriageac
http://www.petitiononline.com/0712t001/
^^^ Marriage Equality Petitions
http://tinyurl.com/a6erq
TRex- what a brilliant and very moving post. Your turn of phrase and your heartfelt view will speak to many, I very much hope. You are so on the mark with what you say, or at least that is my read. Het here, but it breaks my heart that this is still up for grabs as an issue. And, it’s not exactly like het relationships are all good and pure and wonderful. Plenty of misery to go around there, from what I know. I just wish that there was more importance put on relating to individuals as individuals, and not by some label. I have had great and loyals friends of all stripes, and I have also been stiffed and *hit upon by other individuals who also wear these same stripes. The unreason of this labeling makes me truly sad.
Excellent post, Trex.
You’re on to something. There is something reptilianly illicit and compelling about self-destruction. Look how many cops go bad. How the cheating, rather than the sex, is the thrill of an affair.Or self-immolate with drink or drugs.
Life its own self is hard enough. But when you compress and oppress it like the Repugs do, some ugly things are going to pop out in stange places.
d@21
It is not ugly..
I don’t even want to think about things popping out in strange places on a Republican.
Who are these people, that they can rise from their beds every day and look at themselves in the mirror knowing that they are undermining themselves and every other gay man and lesbian in this country? … How can they do it? Does the cognitive dissonance ever make their ears ring or, you know, give them migraines?
It’s Easy — They are Amoral Republicans. Nothing else matters, except there own appetites. There is no cognitive dissonance, there is no shame — those require a conscience and empathy, and these ghouls have neither.
TRex -
Some Republican Closeted Folks may be self-hating, but others truly believe that despite the homophobia around them in the GOP, they can cure the bigots from the inside. Of course, that generally works well as the basis for any good longterm relationship. . .
“Yes, I’ve heard he’s a player, but I can change him.”
“Yes, I know she does drugs, but I can change her.”
“Yes, I know he’s beaten previous partners in fits of rage, but I can change him.”
“Yes, I know she’s a work-a-holic, but I can change her.”
And what do we hear coming out of Uncle Tom’s Closet? “Yes, I know they’re homophobic as hell, but I can change them.”
Yeah, that’ll work.
Larry @ 23,
Then it’s not Repug!
LJ/Aquaria @ 24,
It’d be ugly!
Steve Gilliard has a post, with a list of the GOP perverts and moral degenerates. The Bush Family is in the pole position . . .
http://stevegilliard.blogspot......de-of.html
While in NV someone should look Leola McConnell up and check all those dominix stories up…of KGB.
These people are the self-loathing spiritual descendants of those lost souls, Ronnie Reagan’s gay mafia, who so enjoyed the liberation provided by the 1970s, and then went home in the mid-eighties to die of “liver cancer,” because Ronnie and Nancy couldn’t bear to hear the A-word.
I’m really hoping that future generations will look upon this day as we do now the day George Wallace stood in the schoolhouse door or Lester Maddox picked up his ax-handle at his chicken restaurant: the last flourish of a view that some people are less than. When I think of the debates of our founders — and the horrific compromise they made — about discrimination, I wonder how we can imagine codifying hate into our Constitution.
And to sully OUR month, June, with this crap really pisses me off — think of the children, wondering somewhere in Nebraska whether they are second-class citizens, as Harvey Milk used to say. Come out, come out, wherever you are.
I googled Karl’s wife Darby Rove, and discovered
and
I know that doesn’t make him not gay, but really, I do need pictures. Or not, I really, really don’t ever want to see Karl Rove’s ass.
Well, interesting. While I’m long on record as admitting that I’m just not quite as “tuned in” to gay stuff as many around here…I continue to believe that the gay folks ought to be left alone.
In your article, I think you talk about some examples of gay folks being in the WH. Frankly, I didn’t find this Padraig guy (girl?) to be too persuasive. Who is this person? I’m not being critical of you, Mr. Trex, but this particular source doesn’t move me.
Now, here’s what I found most interesting:
“Once when I was a very young gay man, I was told by a certain Old Queen to give up on my notions of finding a loving partner and settling down into a real relationship. “Men cannot truly fall in love with each other,” he told me, “We’re incapable of monogamous relationships. So, enjoy the sex, enjoy your friends, but don’t expect to find a relationship like your parents have. It doesn’t work that way for us.”
Fortunately, I saw this advice for exactly the steaming pile of horseshit that it was. “That may be true for you,” I said, “But it’s different now. My generation doesn’t have the psychic and spiritual wounds that yours does. You have internalized their hate and turned it on yourself.”
I had no idea that such philosophical discussions went on among gay folks. Somehow….somehow, I think this sort of knowledge needs to get communicated more often out to us hetero folks. It shows depth, and can help a hetero try to place much of the struggles of gay folks in a better context. At least, it did for me. Thank you for the article.
Ghostman
Great article! But you left Florida homophobic congressloon and self-loather Mark Foley off your list of gay Republicans who are being whispered about and fingerpointed at. Or was that because you wanted to make it clear that in Foley’s case it is hardly whispers but screeching, screaming and shrieking?
As I’m sure you know, there’s a billion in one chance that the FEC and IRS will crackdown on some right-wing church for engaging in overtly political activities– like endorsing candidates and campaigning for them (the way Roman Catholic priests told women parishioners in California’s farming valleys that if they voted for Kerry they would go to Hell). So what right-wing churches do instead is print up those so-called “nonpartisan” information cards that list key issues and how particular legislators voted on them. Bush and Rove were told by their whacko allies in the Christian-fascist movement to give them this vote for their cards so they could rail against homosexuality from the pulpit and then hand out the cards showing that (most) Democrats and the equally disliked moderate Republicans (all
dozeneleven of them) had voted on Team Satan.Anyone wanna take bets on how Foley, Dreier and McCrery vote?
Ghostman-
I had no idea that such philosophical discussions went on among gay folks.
Did you mean to be really this insulting? Why would “gay folks” not have exactly the same sorts of philosophical (and intellectual and etc.) conversations that everyone else has, save the sociopaths in our society (GWB, to name one)?
Jeebus, who ISN’T gay?
ditto, VG!
angie- to which VG comment?
34, valley girl, I neither meant to, nor was I so insulting. A problem with the gay community is that they are VERY quick to jump on someone, rather than listening to what they have to say, and reacting in an adult manner.
Ghostman
Did Ghostman just go Colbert on us?
Ghostman, you may not be gay, but you have once again revealed yourself to be a s-poofter. Ya gotta do something about that fake earnestness, man, it’s a dead giveaway.
VG– I just arrived again and was responding to your 8:58 comment.
Ghostman- I am not part of the “gay community” as you put it, but I was stunned by your apparent naivete.
angie, got it. I had a longer comment up thread.
42 VG, “apparent” being the operative word. Guy’s a spoof troll.
That is blatant BS, imho, Ghostman @ 9:01. Rather it’s some heteros that do just that.
op99- yes I used “apparent” with due consideration.
That Leola McConnell/Victor Ashe story is positively juicy. Where’s the press when it’s a Bush? The NYT puts a story questioning the Clinton’s marriage on the front page, above the fold. But no one will ask Ken Mehlmean about his sexuality.
Easy, kids. Let’s not jump on Ghostman. I hear his point, however awkwardly it may be worded. The popular media, however well-intentioned it may be, does have a tendency to imply that all gay people care about is fashion, sex, scandal, sex, and decorating. Here, as with Christians, it is an example of the vocal minority hijaking public perception of the whole.
My shift is over. I am going to get some groceries, then I’ll check back in. Thanks for reading, Firedogs!!
sigh….everyone, sometimes I think too many of you live in too much of a cocoon. You see, there’s LOTS AND LOTS of hetero’s that have little knowledge of the struggles and so forth of gays. They don’t mix or mingle with gays. But…they’re good people!
Now, you can either jump on these folks when they reveal that they don’t know as much about “being gay” as you want them to…OR, you can use your time to educate. Up to you.
I COMPLIMENTED Mr. Trex for sharing an insight into the gay world that I was not aware of. More of this insight should be shared.
And, more of you should leave your cocoon and REACH OUT to folks that don’t know much about the gay world, rather than belittling them. Just a hint…just a thought.
Ghostman
TRex, in da house! happy (late) birthday…
Googlr Victor Ashe and tell me that’s not some great dirt.
oops, google
Ah, you het folks wouldn’t believe what we talk about.
We can be very blunt, very deep and very shallow. All within the span of one sentence.
The kind of bitter old queen TRex talks about is a common archetype in the community. It is a generational thing, to some extent, but I see signs of some relative young’ns on track for such a position, mostly because they are, for whatever reason too damaged or too afraid to establish genuine intimacy, and they need to justify being alone.
By and large, my generation (I’m 40) has had to learn to create and develop models of sustainable intimacy without the encouragement or understanding of our own families. Moreover, the AIDS plague robbed us of almost a generation’s worth of wisdom in living, a whole slew of potential role models able to carve out successful lives in coupledom.
I fully support, actually, the choice of any couple, gay or straight, to open up a relationship in some form or other sexually, if that’s what’s right for them. In my relationship, we’ve decided not to do that, feeling that we get a payoff in personal intimacy by remaining in a closed, monogamous relationship. But the notion that male couples can not succeed in an exclusive relatrionship is nonsense.
The need for people like me to learn how best to live lives of authenticity through trial and error has, I think, given us an advantage over those who accept models of living merely handed to them. I’ve heard many people comment on seeing same sex couples who inspire with the quality of their apparent union, however unrecognized in law.
Paradoxically, when someday there is a generation of gay folks for whom the default marriage path may be common, it may be harder for them to develop the kind of hard earned lives of authenticity leading to intimacy that some in my generation have discvered. I don’t expect, however, to live to see that day in America, if it ever comes
P.S. Let’s imagine being a part of a group that is villified by the (im) moral majority–
don’cha think it would s*ck? Walk a mile in somebody else’s shoes. Oh wait, we are, to a much lesser extent than GLBT’s, muslims, etc.
Except, what was up with all those black and hispanic and other minority church leaders crowing about the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman today???
Nobody should eschew or violently yank away any equal human rights for anybody in THIS country, dammit.
No TRex, Ghostman was an obvious spoof the first time he showed up here, then scaled it back when he was called on it. Now he’s back at it again. It is impossible to hang with progressives and be that fucking stupid about GLBT issues.
I had no idea that such philosophical discussions went on among gay folks. Somehow%u2026.somehow, I think this sort of knowledge needs to get communicated more often out to us hetero folks. It shows depth, and can help a hetero try to place much of the struggles of gay folks in a better context. At least, it did for me. Thank you for the article.
Ghostman
———————————————————-
These conversations happen all the time. Another variant is the “Gay men can’t be monogamous” speech. So-called “open relationships” are much more common in the gay world than in the straight world, and a lot of young gay people don’t realize that there are long-term, functional, monogamous gay relationships out there. One of the most interesting things I’ve read about gay marriages in Massachusetts is that several couples have said that they were in open relationships prior to the marriage but became exclusively monogamous when they were finally able to take the plunge and get married. I think this potential impact on the gay community has been greatly underappreciated by the media.
Intermission
This will make you feel good. YouTube clip of the evolution of dance.
http://americablog.blogspot.co.....video.html
I took no offense at Ghostman’s comment at all. There’s a lot of misinformation out there about us, and not everyone has the benefit of knowing out, evolved gay or lesbian adults from whom to learn directly.
Could it have been one of the gay-aware people at the WH that pulled Bush’s gay bash from the Rose Garden to a more obscure location? I hadn’t made the connection to AIDS Awareness Day, but once TeddySF pointed it out earlier it struck me as awfully cruel, even for this gang. Or at least awfully obviously cruel, especially considering that at this point they’re playing to about .2 percent of voters.
Mark Foley was the political bag man for the 2000 Stolen Election in Florida. In 1998, he secretly inserted the language that put the illegal false felon list voter purge in motion; in 2000, he bragged to Clint Curtis about the multiple ways they were going to steal the election. Clint had been hired to write code to hack the electronic voting machines.
Howie Klein — towards the end of yesterday’s book club, I had an idea about using MySpace to promote voter registration among the young. Ideally, making it the cool thing to do all on it’s own — but for now, using iTunes credits and CD give aways for those who register and register their friends.
Is this something you can support?
awesome. riveting. infuriating. TREX, you spoke the truth. it’s time to flush this smelly old turd of bigotry & hypocrisy. why won’t all the haters just dissappear? and why are they afforded media attention?
and not everyone has the benefit of knowing out, evolved gay or lesbian adults from whom to learn directly.
Seeing as he’s a regular spoofer on this blog, he’s had every opportunity to learn.
Some good news on the gay front - after living in the Bay Area for the past 25 years, I recently moved to Colorado Springs, and suddenly, it ain’t the hotbed of Christian right-wing nutjobs I was led to believe it was. I joined the recently formed Colorado Springs Gay Men’s chorus, and this group of guys is turning the community on it’s ear … literally. I guess the message is - there’s hope even in the darkest of places.
Pachacutec says
June 5th, 2006 at 9:14 pm
I took no offense at Ghostman’s comment at all. There’s a lot of misinformation out there about us, and not everyone has the benefit of kowing out, evolved gay or lesbian adults from whom to learn directly.
———————————————————-
Ditto. Cut him some slack. It was a sincere comment, and I don’t think it was at all “awkwardly worded”. I didn’t find it offensive or condescending, either. Heterosexuals are taught from birth to aspire to marriage. Gays aren’t taught by society to aspire to any sort of ideal relationship. TRex’s story is all too common in the gay world, but I’m not at all surprised that Ghostman had never heard of it before.
Well, Robert, I hope so sincerely!
54, Mr. Pach, and 56, Mr. Probst: you 2 have shown more indepth ideas, and conveyed more knowledge of all this than I’ve ever come across in about 20 years. THIS is the sort of thing that needs to get communicated out, more and more often, to “the world”…ummm, meaning the hetero folks.
You see, there’s lots and lots of folks like me (um, lots would mean MILLIONS), that are hetero, and really don’t run around with gay folks. That’s NOT a slam…just the way it is. And so, as Mr. TRex intimated above, LOTS of misconceptions, or GAPS exist within the hetero folks as to knowledge. Now, you can damn people like me who aren’t as aware….OR, like TRex, Pach, and Probst have done, start filling in the gaps.
Oh, and op99: just can it.
Ghostman
Pachacutec 9:12 pm well said :)
The sad thing is, marriage is under attack. It’s under attack from stagnating wages, from constant uncertainty about whether one will have a job tomorrow, or whether one’s family will have healthcare, from disappearing pensions, from back-to-back deployments, and more. From conservative “values” that push people into marriage too young because it’s the only way they’re allowed to experience sex, and they end up married before they find out they don’t want to send their lives together. These are the forces that break up marriages. Just not gay marriage.
Folks, I don’t know Ghostman from Adam’s housecat. It’s possible he’s a troll, but could be he is ignorant of things gay.
I profess to being that way at one time,too. How many gays do think were out in my 1960’s and 70’s rural, churchified South?
I never really considered the gay community, or even knew a gay, until I was well into adulthood.
Fortunately, what kept me from being a bigot was the Good Book and dad. The Good Book says we’re all God’s children - it does not except gays. It also says we’re fallen creatures in need of grace - including hetro’s. And especially Pharisees like Falwell and Robertson.
Dad was very private. He insisted on his personal privacy and accorded everybody else theirs. He was definitely against the government meddling in folks’ lives.I roll the same way.
In later years I had the opportunity to work with some gay guys. The conversations started out awkward, but it smoothed out. A great learning experience for me. Really good guys, and I respect them greatly. The cultural norms stand against them, and still they dare to be themselves.
What could be more American?
One more thing about educating hets:
I admit, I sometimes grow weary of it, to the point that it pisses me off. I think all minorities get annoyed with the burden of educating the majority at times. Some white folks really do have embarrassing, offensive ideas in their heads, transferred to them by family, and they ask sometimes well meaning questions that can nevertheless be offensive. Gay folks experience the same thing.
It’s still incumbent on us sometimes to let those who might otherwise be curious and disposed to learn from us ask the taboo questions they would like to ask but feel ashamed to ask or don’t know how to ask. I never assume that because one is liberal or a Dem that they are not homophobic on some level. Quite the contrary, I find some levels of homophobia to be more common than not, and find the homophobia of the left can be more insidious than the open bigotry we encounter from the right. Malcolm X felt the same way.
ck (#61)- Sounds like a GREAT idea. Not only can I support it, but maybe I can even help you a little with it. Tell me what you’re doing at downwithtyranny at aol dot com.
h/t to Ghostman, both in #32 and #50.
I have similar conversations w. liberals here in Tulsa, OK (see #50), not specifically about ‘the gay world’ but about all kinds of stuff…about needing to reach out, be open, and not being so quick to condemn, but try to listen to the whole idea.
Most people need to be given the benefit of the doubt (see: Francine Busby and how that’s NOT going to happen), and hey, if it turns out that they really DO suck, by letting them go on, you’ve given them enough rope to hang themselves.
I think we’re all so wound up we can cross the line into being self-righteous.
Maybe I’m doing it now…
since i was epu’d below…
i’ve been wondering, for a while, about something that could surely change the “structure” or nature of unions. what if a union could come together, of human beings. the human beings whose very life depends on the survival of particular conditions on earth. a union who recognized, that without it’s worthy efforts, the nasty corporate organisms glopping themselves all over the delicate and irreplaceble resources of our planet, would be nothing?
Pach - was Tony trying to tell us something at the presser today?
“MR. SNOW: I’m not going to characterize — I don’t think it’s passive. Again, the President has made clear what his views are. But this is one where — I’m trying to figure out exactly how one decides when one is active and one is passive.”
Nirvana - All Apologies
What else should I be
All apologies
What else should I say
Everyone is gay
What else could I write
I dont have the right
What else should I be
All apologies
In the sun
In the sun I feed as one
In the sun
In the sun
Im married
Buried
I wish I was like you
Easily amused
Find my nest of salt
Everything is my fault
Ill take all the blame
Aqua seafoam shame
Sunburn with freezerburn
Choking on the ashes of her enemy
All in all we all are
Ghostman– Now that you know this, perhaps you can get out there and find some peeps and talk to them in person. I appreciate the fact that I learn a lot on-line, but there is no other way to really know people than to talk to them, meet them eye to eye, respect them despite their differences as any religion would teach. All I can tell you is, they are US– people with all the wishes and hopes and feelings that everyone has. People who want to live their lives with liberty– to take care of one another, live a dream, contribute and not feel vulnerable to an ugly ’society’ at every turn.
rusty: ah, the age old power bottom dilemma. . .
G’nite firedogs. Nite Spoofman.
nite op99! Sweet dreams.
I should crash, too.
Have a yabba dabba doo time. A dabba doo time. Have a gay old time.
I want to go on record as agreeing with the others that this is a great post.
I may be an old fart hetero, but I worked in Hollywood and my wife was an amateur dancer, so I/we (including the years before I knew my wife) have had many long years of friendships with people who happen to be gay.
Even in college in the ‘50-60’s, there was always something suspicious about YR’s: secretive behavior, hand-wringing glee at such illicit actions as stealing elections, behind-the-back deals. Closeting one’s sexual preferences would fit well into this kind of behavior pattern.
In the same way as white Southerners defend the indefensible Confederacy, these former YR’s defend a way of life that is discriminatory and, from the point of view of believers in the Bill of Rights, also indefensible.
To change the subject slightly, how can the Roves, Mehlmans, Robertses, etc., maintain the Teflon coating? Why are the right wing so willing to forgive the little pecadillos (and my guess is that KR suffers a great deal as a result of his little pecadillo) of their appointed leaders/saints and yet so eager to hurl abuse at the “other?” Can it be a matter of externalizing the “Sin Within?”
It would be really funny if…GWB were gay. So much overcompensation in one guy, a marriage of convenience, intensely close relationship with his mother, distant father. Exercise freak. Member of an exclusive fraternity that employs spanking, nudity, and masturbation in initiation rites. Male cheerleader in college.
Nah. Couldn’t be.
TRex, if I were a gay man instead of a lesbian, and if I were anywhere near Georgia, I would sooooooo be trying to get a date with you. Brains and a way with words, sigh….
The reason why he cannot define a civil right is because they are hellbent on getting rid of them. Why define something that will no longer exist?
how can everybody be going to bed at 9:44 pst?
It seems to me that an important distinction to be made is between civil marriage and religious marriage. Plenty of men and women are legally married who do things behind closed doors that would stop the average baptist dead in their tracks. Not only that, they in no way see their marriage as bound by or adherent to the dictates of any religion. What about them?
Next it will be the man-woman-marriage-with-a-bible-missionary-position-in -the-dark-real-quiet-no-need-for-female-pleasure-must-risk-pregnancy- because-life-is-sacred-at-least-until-18-then-it’s-$5.15-an-hour-from-then-on-out constitutional amendment…
amen, knuckledragger!
Well, I still have a good sense of humor. And, 86 just cracked me up:
“Plenty of men and women are legally married who do things behind closed doors that would stop the average baptist dead in their tracks.”
THAT is classic.
Ghostman
Thanks, Howie –
I’ll send details tomorrow; I’m running low on energy tonight.
I’m 27, and I think any marriage-gay or striaght-is the dumbest thing in the world
Matt O. @ 9:44 pm (#85) - Why talk about faster-than-light space travel? Because someone might invent it one day and you wouldn’t have a plan.
Ghostman- you should consider the direct contact as angie suggested. I will wager all my fdl chips, it’s time well spent. Sounds long overdue. Oh and please return that Colbert badge. *g*
Totally OT, but a treat, nonetheless…
Windows is Shutting Down by Clive James
Clive James
Saturday April 30, 2005
The Guardian
Windows is shutting down, and grammar are
On their last leg. So what am we to do?
A letter of complaint go just so far,
Proving the only one in step are you.
Better, perhaps, to simply let it goes.
A sentence have to be screwed pretty bad
Before they gets to where you doesnt knows
The meaning what it must of meant to had.
The meteor have hit. Extinction spread,
But evolution do not stop for that.
A mutant languages rise from the dead
And all them rules is suddenly old hat.
Too bad for we, us what has had so long
The best seat from the only game in town.
But there it am, and whom can say its wrong?
Those are the break. Windows is shutting down.
Ghostman is always a gentleman and engages in real dialogue, asking questions and responding thoughtfully. He has never been disrespectful before and he’s not now,IMO. Just a bit out of the loop.
Trex, you truly rock. G’night.
can’t wait til the moral majority starts legislating against beating your wife/husband after drinking your children’s school/shoe money away in the local bar and then sleeping with someone else and then beating your neighbor cause they got the girl you want and then lying about it all. then you go out and kill someone out of rage and curse your maker and your parents on a Sunday while worshiping American Idol’s newest winner. then you can’t build your new fence over your neighbor’s land line to fit your fine motorboat into the backyard (even though you want to, reeeeeeeel bad), ’cause you are still in denial that your preznit lied about someone else to get their land. (Iraq and Afghanistan)
I think that covers all 10 Commandments. The SCOTUS is gonna have one long field day!
Windows is Shutting Down
Thanks, an amen. These from the folk who give we officious idiot grammar checker, no lest.
93, eureka: sssshhhh! You shouldn’t talk with me….why, I’m a troll! a spoof! (whatever a spoof is)….ok, ok, I’m being waaaay too sarcastic.
As to angie…and HERE WE GO AGAIN (sigh)…but she used the word “peeps”. Now, what in the devil is a “peeps”? People? That’s how I interpreted it. So, angie suggests I talk to people…meaning my hetero friends? Well, ok, but working such chit-chat into our usual conversations (football, baseball, broads) could be a bit tricky. But I’ll certainly try.
Truthfully, I think the gay folks could also do a better job of getting their message out. Such as the things which Pach, Probst, and TRex talked about. With ignorance….well, as we all know, that can be the breeding ground for fear, and hate.
With knowledge, can come TONS of understanding and acceptance, which therefore leads to political gains.
So, while I sip my whiskey straight up, and me and the boys talk about that blonde “over there”, I’ll try to work in some talk on gay issues/understandings. I’ll pitch in…and I think the gay community, as well-intentioned as they are, can also do better in crafting their message.
OH! As to Colbert….I think that guy is brilliant. I’ll never have his gift. My comments above were never intended to be “Colbert-ish”…I just don’t have his skill level at what he does.
Ghostman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Spoof or spoofing can refer to:
* Parody by imitation
* Forgery of goods or documents
* Spoofing attack, a computer security term
* Referer spoofing, a type of spoofing attack
* Protocol spoofing, a technique to increase performance in data communications
* Spoof (game), a guessing game
Ghostman…
I think if you do as angie recommends, you will learn that you’ve known a LOT of gay people, and didn’t realize it. It’s not like every gay person swishes up to you, flops his wrist, and lisps, “I’m thooooo Gay!” when he or she meets you. Why would they? It’s like a het walking up and proudly proclaiming, in some ridiculous Superman pose, “I’m a heterosexual!” How ridiculous is that?
Very similar to a Hispanic friend of mine who had blonde hair and blue eyes. Then, when she took her new boyfriend home to meet her family, who had the more traditional coloring, he sputtered, “But-but-but you didn’t tell me you were a spic!”
Well, gee, he didn’t walk up to her and say, “I’m a Franco-Germano-Anglo Caucasian!” either. Why? Because he, like most Caucasians, simply assumed that people will know what he is, or, better yet, not care what race he is. Why would she be any different on the latter score? Why not have someone accept you for yourself, for reasons other than race or orientation? You know, like because you’re intelligent or funny or kind?
95, mommybrain….you’ve probably gone to bed. If you later read this…I AM chuckling! (I truly can laugh at my own self!)….so, your message seems to say that I’m a good guy, just a dumbshit! And now, I REALLY am chuckling. But anyways, tis the thought that counts! And thank you.
99, eureka: ok…I guess that op person must mean I’m a fake or something. I’ll just roll my eyes, and withhold comment. Chuckle.
Ghostman