Fitz

it’s not just morin who’s carrying bush’s water — it’s the washington post trying to justify its warmongering

re-Fitz!!!

Post-Fitz …

Keep fighting Jane!

You’re learning how the game is played, and teaching us. Thanks.

“won’t get fooled again. no,no”

Orwellian

So how do you pronounce Morin?

Great photo.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?Item said…
West Point Graduates Against The War: Now Is The Time
by James Ryan

http://www.zmag.org/content/
showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10254

May 12, 2006

West Point Graduates Against the War

Cry “Havoc!” and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.
Julius Caesar

Why?

We members of West Point Graduates Against The War stand appalled at the deceitful behavior of the government of the United States and, in particular, its widely known malefactors. Their lying, cheating, stealing, and rendition of evasive statements not only has demeaned these deceivers and our country, but they have placed vast numbers of innocent people in deadly peril as a direct result of their deceptions. We will not serve these lies, that is, we will not work for, be a servant to, provide for, assist, or promote the interests of this dishonorable administration. By remaining silent we tacitly serve; we are no longer silent.

The illegal assault and occupation in Iraq has killed tens of thousands of innocents, both American, Iraqi, and others, causing incalculable damage to Iraq and the Iraqi people, as well as the reputation and honor of the United States of America.
ID=10254

TIA– Total Idiot Asshats!

sorry for the double entendre.

Thanks…Yep we are learnin alrighty!

He’s not a Morin; he’s a SuperMorin.

I’ll stop now.

Here’s a question for Morin to consider: would it change any pro-listening Americans’ minds if they were told that there might be *NO* benefit to the government keeping all these records? You know, if they were just spying on random people for the hell of it? Normally, when one does a cost-benefit analysis, one doesn’t merely take the existence of a benefit on *faith*.

I mean, we’re being asked to take the word of the *Bush* Administration about whether this program does *anything* useful - and these are the same masters of logic who argue that the absence of another terrorist attack means Bush is doing a good job, and if there were to be another attack, it would mean we need Bush to be a strong leader?

They really cover all their bases. Too bad the Post can’t say the same for their work.

Pelosi with with “no impeachment” pledge makes me fucking ill.

Nothing like allowing others to set the frame you idiot.

If I were Bush now, I’d start banging interns and bombing Jamaica….”Hey, I got a free pass!”

-GSD

This Morin guy sure knows how to strike before the iron is hot.

i emailed morin at 6a this morning. jeez, surely i was one of the first and i still haven’t received a response. i politely asked him why his rather small sampling of 502 didn’t correspond to any of the many earlier polls on wiretapping issues. not to mention that the friggin story broke as people were leaving for work and hardly had an opportunity to grasp the details before they were called last nite.

if you’re interested, pollingreport is a great resource:

http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm

How about polling that asked “Would you allow President Bush or President Hillary Clinton to spy without any legal oversight whatsoever?”

-GSD

Ahhh, the Condor.(wink wink).

I agree with this post. Morin is not primarily a pollster or a statistician, he is a political operative. He made that very clear throughout the whole interview, a part of which was shown in the post.

I think there is an important point made by the poll and that is that we should make sure we present reasoned and cogent arguments for our positions, so this kind of fraud is less persuasive from the get go.

This is repeated from the previous post to expand on my point:
… new Moring poll in WaPo seems faked up to me. I am not even sure I would say I disapproved of that kind of program, in a different context (like, with real Congressional oversight, halfway normal people in office who recognized law). I think it is important for those of us opposed to BushCo to get beyond sheer outrage and yelling “Get a load of this cr*p!†when we express ourselves.
So we should count to ten and take a deep breath. Points I emphasize calmly are, in this order 1) Regardless of whether program it itself is accetable or not, Executive needs to follow law, and Congress needs to perform oversight, and Courts need to review; 2) given the BushCo track record, if there is no oversight, what is the chance that it actually works -really, what is it? 10%, 20%, maybe 50% if we’re rreeaall lucky? 3) Regardless of what intent is now or what happened so far, think about potential or abuse; 4) and there is other stuff going on we don’t know about.

I also think that BushCo scaremongering is also a valid point -what is it about merely discussing this that endangers national security? Anyway, I think people who start their arguments with sheer outrage are not being very effecive.

***
As a closing thought, I remember reading about the Mapplethorpe obscenity trial in Cincinnati. The jury from this supposedly very conservative city did not find Mapplethorpe’s photos obscene. I remember some quotes from the jury that went something like: The proscution didn’t present any argument or explanation at all. They just rolled out the pictures and yelled “Get a load of this!” We thought some of pictures were making interesting points in kind of a humorous way.

So, those are rough paraphrases. But idea is that you always need a convincing cogent arguments, not just outrage.

The day is quickly approaching when Rethugs will be touting how THEY were the only ones courageous enough to rein in Bush the Dictator while sniveling congressional Democrats stood by ready to see the Constitution flushed down the drain.

Jane,

It is spectacular to see you pull back the curtain and expose the spinning gears of the Republican noise machine.

Once we understand the inner workings of their machine, we can absolutely wreck it.

The machine depends on secrecy for the perpetuation of lies - transparency and truth are the kryptonite.

Keep it up - and thank you.

MyDD blog has an interesting point on the Morin hackery… http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/5/12/174756/397

Morin was whorin’ for BushCo. Simple as that. WaPoo should be ashamed. But, I won’t hold my breath.

Another way to look at this poll:

44. What do you think is more important right now - (for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy); or (for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats)?

This Morin is really shameless, and I think his questions suck. A reasonable set of questions would have included the legality issues, whether Congress should be given a chance to give informed consent, etc.

Here’s another question:

45. It’s been reported that the National Security Agency has been collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans. It then analyzes calling patterns in an effort to identify possible terrorism suspects, without listening to or recording the conversations. Would you consider this an acceptable or unacceptable way for the federal government to investigate terrorism? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat?

Here’s as much of the poll as I could find:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....051206.htm

Pelosi with with “no impeachment†pledge makes me fucking ill.

Nothing like allowing others to set the frame you idiot.

not only that, but once again, she reinforces the meme that democrats are all over the motherfucking place and don’t have a clue, when it’s really her who is taking any and all positions. i really wonder if she doesn’t love her status as minority leader — she gets a big office, occasionally gets on teevee, but never, ever has to take responsibility for the legislation passed. hey, just like fredo.

the dems desperately need new leadership.

Wrong name, Moron instead of Morin.

John B - Absolutely agree. I was thinking along the lines of French mythology concerning the Resistence. The fact is that not many French were part of it during the War; yet after, the Resistence’s numbers swelled.

Of course it was all revisionist. The question is, how will they get all those stickers off their cars.

I just flipped on All Things Considered and they had (shudder) David Brooks on discussing this poll… more neo-con body snatchers at NPR.

Even Froomkin thinks this poll is complete crap. From today’s column …

“Here’s the language from the Washington Post/ABC News poll :

“What do you think is more important right now — (for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy); or (for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats)? Sixty-five percent said investigate threats; 31 percent said privacy.

“It’s been reported that the National Security Agency has been collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans. It then analyzes calling patterns in an effort to identify possible terrorism suspects, without listening to or recording the conversations. Would you consider this an acceptable or unacceptable way for the federal government to investigate terrorism? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat?” Sixty-three percent said acceptable, 35 percent said unacceptable.

But aside from creating an unfair and false conflict between national security and privacy, these questions simply aren’t the most appropriate ones right now. How about asking something like this:

* Do you feel you know enough about how this program works to reach a definitive conclusion?

* Do you think the public should know more about this program and others like it?

* Should the government be able to launch programs like this in secret?

* Do you think President Bush should have asked for approval from the courts or Congress before taking this action?

* Do you trust the Bush administration not to abuse a program like this, when there is no independent oversight?”

obviously, ginnin’ up a bogus impeachment poll is hard work, heh.

I have beaten this a lot, but today is when Gov is to file their submission from (presumably Alexander?) for the final chants in their State Secrets invocation in the EFF lawsuit. Interesting timing to have that for filing and Morin’s *interesting* poll hit at the same time.

pdf of Gov’s filing to intervene:
http://www.eff.org/legal/cases.....terest.pdf

4
The United States is preparing to submit its state secrets privilege assertion, motion to
intervene, and motion to dismiss by May 12, 2006,
. . .
In addition, however, the protection of state secrets often requires dismissal of a case. . . . The United States believes that principle to be applicable here; thus, in addition to asserting the state secrets privilege, the United States also
intends to file a motion to intervene in this action under Rule 24 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure for the purpose of seeking dismissal of this case.

. . . government to complete its submission, which will also take into account allegations made in Plaintiffs’ recent motion for a preliminary injunction. In addition, the privilege itself must be asserted by the agency head responsible for protecting the information at issue after actual personal consideration by the officer. . . .The government intends to file its submission by May 12, 2006 . . .

Finally, because the United States intends to assert the state secrets privilege and file a
dispositive motion to dismiss this action, the United States requests that discovery proceedings be deferred until the government’s submission has been considered and heard.

Or at least long enough to offshore records?

*s*

I hate to admit it, but I was listening to Good Morning America while I was getting ready for work and, of course, Charlie Gibson et al were chirping about the poll. I wondered. Thanks for the insight on this because my blood boils every time these polls are trotted out to make everyone think all of this is just fine and dandy with the average American. I hope the backlash from this huge for both WaPo and ABC.

And what happended to the Grand Jury today? Did Tweety say it on purpose to get us all excited for nothing?

OT - I have a comment below thread with no links awaiting moderation. Are there words/phrases that need to be avoided?

Well, I suppose if everyone approves of being monitored, then I must as well. This weekend I’ll be installing my own email/telephone data collector, which should make it easier for the hardworking folks at NSA since they won’t have to install it. One less thing for them to worry about. I think you can pick them up at Home Despot.

Anyone heard from mamayaga?

anon @ 3:23 pm (#28) * Do you trust the Bush administration not to abuse a program like this, when there is no independent oversight?â€

Well, how about “Would you trust the Clinton Administration not to abuse a power like this? How about the Johnson Administration? Nixon? Grant? Harding?”

Whatever safeguards there are need to be able to work for everybody, or they’re pretty meaningless. I think we’re seeing an example of that, now.

I really, really think Pelosi is an ass.

I understand that she’s trying to take away the idea that the Dems want a “tit for tat” impeachment witchhunt.

I dont understand why the messaging is so bad.

why not;

“This country needs oversight. The children are running amok and need parenting. A Democrat lead conress will provide a check on this runaway presidency through oversight, as required by the constitution”

Wow, I got quoted in an FDL post?!? I’ll never wash my keyboard again!

You know, Lou- lou Dobbs et al seeeeems to be going our way, but I am stating here for my own ‘on the record moment’, he is a wingnut using the ever pervasive xenophobia to keep him ‘centered’. i watch him. carefully. like a rabid animal… he’s an opportunist.

saw morin this am, he looked and talked jest like lou.

Thank God firedoglake is discrediting Morin’s obvious wing-nuttery. Every time he comes out with a biased Bush loving poll - the MSM shuts down. Bush could disband Congress (he already effectively did), shred our Constitution (already underway) and the next day Morin would come out with a poll stating, ‘63% of Americans approve of Strong Executive Action during the War on Terror”.

I was also just listening to David Brooks on NPR preening himself over Morin’s poll. Now the Administration will start boasting about how the American public has supposedly given them the green light to spy on ordinary citizens without a warrant. Let’s hope they’ll be in for a rude surprise in November. In the meantime, it would be interesting to learn the results of a more accurate poll.

Are there any recent polls on HOW BushCo is conducting this program? For example:

The executive branch is compiling a database of all your telephone contacts in an effort to spot terrorist communications. Do you think a review every 45 days of whole program conducted by one nameless lawyer and seen by no one outside the Bush administration constitutes adequate oversight and protection against potential abuses of your privacy?

Given the performance of the Bush administration in Iraq reconstruction program, Katrina hurricane disaster rescue and relief, and security checks in UAE port sale, what do you think chances are that this program is conducted in way that it actually produces useful information?

I want to see the results of those polls.

Oops, #28 - want to make clear, that is Froomkin’s brilliant writing, not mine. His latest column is right here …

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00879.html

Mary @ 3:26 pm (#32) Yes, there are such phrases or combinations of words. We ran into one the other day chatting about how to make nuclear fuel better.

Unfortunately, we don’t know what all the combinations are.

I spoke to my sister on the phone last night about 8:30 - she’s fairly politically savvy, definitely a liberal and keeps up fairly well on the news.

Well, she had had a hard day at work and had not heard WORD ONE about the NSA phone stuff yet.

My point is: what Jane said! This Morin Moron knew exactly what he was doing - working people were not up to speed yet, which was his whole point. Jerk!

Mary at 30:

a story about the EFF lawsuit in Forbes.com today:

http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/.....r=yahootix

“Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”

From Morin’s slanted polling back to the Project for a New American Century’s faux-academic screeds asking “Ain’t War Grand?,” we’ve see the corrupt use of academic social science methods by the ideological hedghogs.

I’ve been reading lately how academic social science was one of the main pressure points of the National Socialists in Germany in the 1930s.

Not that Bushism and Nazism are the same in all respects, mind you….

aarrgghh #29: good point. Morin will have to do impeachment poll sooner or later, and doing a cooked one is getting tougher everyday. Morin is clever, but not that clever. Let’s see how well his homepollcooking recipe turns out when he cannot avoid an impeachment poll any longer.

Pelosi’s message boils down to -

Vote Dem, bc we like the President better than you do!!!

Uh, but, like, you know, uh, not as much as Pat Roberts does.

Except, you know, some of us do, but not, like, ALL of us.

And also except Russ Feingold, who we can’t figure out even with the NSA decoder ring.

But yeah - vote for us for those reasons.

Apart from the highly leading questions, I think asking people in a phone survey how they feel about having their phones tapped is totally absurd. The answers you give depend on how paranoid you are! Only Karl Rove could have come up with this.

Mary@48. Sadly funny.

Per his promise, which you quote, now that people ARE talking about impeachment, is he going to poll it? (Ans: no. Because it doesn’t suit his agenda.)

I think it’s almost time for Zogby or Harris to do a poll about the phone records - not too soon, though - wait a little bit to let people digest the info and learn more of the real facts that are dripping out - they get worse every day.

But we need a real poll out there to call Morin’s into serious question.

I saw Carol Doda in 1975 in a San Francisco nightclub. Her lead act was Bobby Freeman who had one hit in 1965 called “The Swim.” He did a 15 minute version of that and then Carol came out with those tits.

Afterwards, I walked across the street and headed into the City Lights bookstore where Lawrence Ferlinghetti was handling the cashier duties. I bought a copy of Allen Ginsberg’s “The Fall of America.”

Great book.

i haven’t spotted mamayaga since her brilliant post and quiet and unobstrusive visit thereafter….. i am hoping she is being treated beautifully by a fantastic Citizen of the World!!!

JWR– congrats!!!

John Casper– congrats!

All three of you have been great contributors to my life!

Pelosi illustrated once again PRECISELY why the Democrats keep getting their asses handed to them at election time, and why, unbelievable as it may seem given the Icarus-like plunge the Republicans and the Bush administration are currently experiencing, the Democrats are still not at all guaranteed a win in the November midterms.

What the Democratic leadership ought to be saying whenever somebody brings up the issue of impeachment is basically “Yeah, well in light of all of the crap the Republicans have been pulling over the past several years, impeachment should actually be the least of their worries when the Democrats retake the House in November.”

And yet, we’re going to have bubbleheads like Pelosi repeatedly undermining the party and making the Democrats look like a bunch of bald-faced liars. Nobody is going to buy this bullshit, intelligence-insulting story that “impeachment is off the table.” All that’s going to do is to lose the Democrats votes in November.

Sticky, Brooks and Dionne are regulars and ahave been for a long time.

New Morin Poll:

63% of Americans agree with Bush 100% of the time.

It certainly looks as if the WP is trying to shore up Clusterfuck- as is CNN and many others.

It may be that they all fear what could happen if we have a guy in the White House for three years with 15% approval ratings- or they may just be ass kissin goopers. Don’t know which.

what was that line?

“we’re so busy keeping our jobs, we forgot to DO our jobs.”

Total bunch of lightweights.

OT, but unbelievable… Bush’s stunt of lecturing the country on immigration in Eastern prime time Monday night will be his first ever address from the Oval on a domestic issue. NBC/GE so far the only broadcast network so far to give up valuable sweeps real estate

Thanks angie.

lina @ 3:31 pm (#45) - That link didn’t work for me. Here’s one that did:

http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/.....12nsa.html

why don’t we poll fdl readership on this issue?

Consider the financial value of the information that the NSA has gathered!
ALL the INSIDE information on EVERY company.

Think they might be tempted to do a little INSIDER TRADING?

How about INDUSTRIAL ESPIONAGE? Think their companies might benefit from some inside information on their competitors?

NBC Nightly News…

Lead story: NSA records AND the Washpo poll.

The Mighty Wurlitzer…

Coz - Maybe they will debunk the poll? I would try to discredit the competition. Let us know.

another interesting note about the morin poll is that the front page of the wapo has had a screaming headling: Majority Supports NSA Phone Record Database. it has not changed all day long which is very unusual.

Related to surveilling all private phone traffic: Anyone ever heard of “Intelligent Mail”?

The U.S. Postal Commission not too long ago proffered the absurd idea of requiring sender and recipient ID for all private U.S. mail, as a similar “data mining/surveillance” anti-”terrist” tactic. Ain’t gonna happen, ‘cuz’a what should be obvious reasons — what, you gotta show 2 forms of photo ID to buy stamps or mail a letter?

Fucking ridiculous, but that didn’t stop ‘em from trying. Well, if you take th trouble to read THAT section of the Postal Commssion report (which I did) AND read a paper issued by Pitney-Bowes during the hearing process (which I did), it becomes clear that Pitney-Bowes essentially WROTE that section of the Commission report — they wanted to get the potentially huge, lucrative contract to implement “Intelligent Mail.”

Part of the argument used the examples of overnight mail services by USPS, FedEx, and other couriers that already record sender & recipient data. BFD. Those are also hugely expensive ways of sending stuff. Plus, the volume of private regular mail makes the logistics of I.M. completely bozo on its face. But, the Suits will never pass up a $$$ opportunity. Selling out our privacy notwithstanding (for ZERO gain in security).

In all honesty I can’t take credit for my comment in #57. After I posted it and was really pleased with my sense of humor, I realized I was plagarizing Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy. I suck.

Brian Fantana: [Talking about Veronica] I’ll give this little cookie an hour before we’re doing the no-pants dance. time to musk up.
[opens cologne cabinet]
Ron Burgundy: Wow. Never ceases to amaze me. What cologne you gonna go with? London Gentleman, or wait. No, no, no. Hold on. Blackbeard’s Delight.
Brian Fantana: No, she gets a special cologne… It’s called Sex Panther by Odeon. It’s illegal in nine countries… Yep, it’s made with bits of real panther, so you know it’s good.
Ron Burgundy: It’s quite pungent.
Brian Fantana: Oh yeah.
Ron Burgundy: It’s a formidable scent… It stings the nostrils. In a good way.
Brian Fantana: Yep.
Ron Burgundy: Brian, I’m gonna be honest with you, that smells like pure gasoline.
Brian Fantana: They’ve done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time.
[cheesy grin]
Ron Burgundy: That doesn’t make sense.
Brian Fantana: Well… Let’s go see is we can make this little kitty purr.
[snarls]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0357413/quotes

Ptooey Pelosi– sorry all Californians, but I was a taxpayer in CA a bit ago for awhile, but the entire country belongs to US. No offense meant and there should be no offense taken. I think this is precisely part of the problem!

Imagine if we took responsibility for all the peeps in the party that were elected nationwide. Ben Nelson, Olympia Snowe, all of the gang of 14 would be held to a higher standard. There is a real middle in this country; but it should be melded with the parties and not by just the hope of re-election. dammit, make them be true!

EPU,

“Maybe they will debunk the poll? I would try to discredit the competition. Let us know.”

They didn’t. Just quoted it and moved on.

Just a reminder:

Randi Rhodes and Ed Schultz on Larry King Live tonight talking about all this stuff…

Cujo359 - thanks

Here’s an interesting question:

Did the Washington Post charge the RNC to run this story?

If they did, it should have been labeled “advertisement”; if they didn’t shouldn’t they be required to report it as an (”in kind”) political contribution? I think they could defend running it in either case (it is, after all, their paper), but it would be interesting to ask them which horn they want to pick up.

–MarkusQ

Asstards!

AndyTiedye @ 3:44 pm (#64) - I think the real point is this - they’re smart people. Anything we could think of doing with that information, they could, too. And if that doesn’t scare you, give me your wallet and I’ll get it back to you tomorrow.

thanks for the Fobes links - it and the related aricles are pretty good.

BTW – is Snow’s “I won’t get ahead of my brief†going to replace McClellan’s “I can’t comment on ongoing investigations†??

And when will I ever see this poll?

Questions:
Telecom CEOs throughout the country have been given security clearances for the NSA program, but Department of Justice ethics lawyers were denied clearance. Do you think this is because:
a) the Government is acting illegally with the telecoms for profit and wants to cover up
b) the Government is acting legally and has nothing to hide, but ethics lawyers can’t be trusted
c) the terrorists have more contact with ethics lawyers than telecom CEOs
d) the Government is by now so chronically inept and incompetent nothing it does makes sense anymore
e) other.

Do you believe the President?
a) yes
b) no

Do you believe that if the President has committed crimes while in office that Congress should agree going in to the 2006 elections to not investigate those crimes and to not impeach?
a) yes
b) no

Should we do away with the requirement that Executive Branch agencies like the FBI and at the local level, police and sheriffs be required to get a warrant from a court and instead allow the good people working at each agency to independently decide what people and homes they think are a good idea to search?
a) yes
b) no

Should we do away with the requirement that Executive Branch agencies like the FBI and at the local level, police and sheriffs be required to get a warrant from a court to arrest American citizens and instead allow the good people working at each agency to independently decide what people should be arrested, when and how?

a) yes
b) no

If the FBI, NSA, police or other spying or law enforcement agencies are turned down for a warrant by a court, should they go ahead with searches, seizures and arrests anyway?
a)yes
b)no

If the FBI, NSA, police or other spying or law enforcement agencies think that they will probably be turned down for a warrant by a court, should they go simply not ask and go ahead with searches, seizures and arrests anyway?

a)yes
b)no

That didn’t take long!

Verizon Sued for Giving NSA Phone Records

TRENTON, N.J. - Two New Jersey public interest lawyers sued Verizon Communications Inc. for $5 billion Friday, claiming the phone carrier violated privacy laws by turning over phone records to the National Security Agency for a secret government surveillance program.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....ds_verizon

I just posted this on Post.blog
Just finished reading that article by Richard Morin and I truly must say what a load of crap!I don’t belive your figures for a minuite,I’ve not heard one person,NOT ONE,say anything in favor of this spying.Your just printing smokescreen to be quoted by the so called ‘radical right’.And radical it is.Absolutly un American,totalitarian crap.This administration can talk about freedon as much as they want,THEY ARE THE ONES TAKING IT AWAY!And you are helping.This is why I cancelled my online subscription,and will never give one dime to your partisan rag.

Posted by: DMM | May 12, 2006 06:48 PM
of course I ment it all in the best possable way.Not!

Mary @ 3:25 pm (#30) - What do you think the government’s chances are? Do they have a solid case? If you’ve answered that question already, just point me there.

And if the NSA is reading this(and they are)I got the big double F-finger for ya,buddy!

Prediction: when Russel Tice reveals an even greater assault by the NSA on our civil liberties on Monday, America will stare at its collective navel and do nothing. The gotcha moment, the complete victory, the Watergate resignation, the political cumshot no longer exists in American politics. We are not people. We are sheep.

Thanks Angie, and right back at ya!

On a lighter note.
OT, ya know Bush is in trouble when Mel Gibson turns against him …

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/12052.....-bush.html

This is interesting, and somewhat encouraging re: reporting. er, one reporter. Brief E&P article, so I’ll quote all but the last paragraph:
http://www.editorandpublisher......1002501824
==Who Is Leslie Cauley, Who Broke ‘USA Today’ Bombshell on NSA?

NEW YORK So who is Leslie Cauley, the reporter who broke the bombshell USA Today story on the National Security Agency’s phone records spying program?

Cauley, 48, who is on the “telecom†beat at USA Today, has been a business journalist for more than twenty years, spending nine years as a staff writer and editor for The Wall Street Journal in New York.

Last year, Simon & Schuster published her book, “The Rise and Fall of AT&T†after she had pursued the story for over a decade at the Journal and at USA Today.

One review noted that she had “earned a reputation for aggressive investigation of the numerous industry shake-ups — none more dramatic than AT&T’s headlong plunge as it misguidedly attempted to become a broadband leader….Filled with new and controversial material and peopled by a cast of characters worthy of a Shakespearean drama, this is the first book to chronicle this riveting tale.â€===

axlegrease,
I’m no damn sheep,I’m fighting and gonna continue to fight and don’t want to hear your defeatest drivel.

Mary @ 3:51 pm (#78) - Once again, wonderful questions that will never be asked.

Lets send the WaHoPo a truckload of kneepads.

Remind them the “Listening Class” (I love it!) has very big ears.

via Randi Rhodes - Karl Rove has told the White House he will be indicted and is resigning!
no online source yet….

DMN:
Sorry! TGIF!

peace dude,sorry,I’m a little snappy

FITZMAS?!?!?……

Thanks! that article just left me befuddled. Now I get it.

Old Coastie:

The Rove story is on Truthout.

don’t know if it’s fitzmas - can’t find confirmation…

“Rove Informs White House He Will Be Indicted”

per truthout http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051206Y.shtml

News Flash!!!
Rove informed Bush he will be indicted and will resign his position on Monday!

HAPPY fITZMAS EVERYONE

eLetter to WaPoo moments ago:
_____

The Richard Morin headline article today on the “poll” purporting to show that ~2/3 of Americans support warrantless NSA phone transaction surveillance should properly have carried the banner “White House/RNC Paid Advertisment.” Did the Bush administration FORCE you to run that, or are you willing accomplices in the dissemination of such transparent partisan empirical balderdash?

jane fish - thanks… that dampens my enthusiasm somewhat…

so maybe the Bush Monday night speech is really for damage control about Rove? maybe give him a medal or sumtin?

I sure hope that’s true about Puke Rove.

VG #86: If the media replaced the national affairs frauds and courtiers and prostitutes with real reporters, BushCo would be gone within a year. Get some sports, fashion page, gardening, business, local crime beat, science, people in there, anybody but the current batch of corrupt lackeys.

…and let’s curb our enthusiasm about the Truthout article. Their sourcing is often pretty feeble…I wouldn’t risk my dogs life on the veracity of one of their stories…

Regarding that Rove resignation story…

Oh FUCK yeah!

I think the press conference is a diversion - create a whole new shitstorm…

A Rove resignation on monday would explain the decision by Bush to put up a prime time speech on a decisive issue at the same time to provide a distraction.

Rove indicted? Sounds too good to be true. But the late Friday PM timing makes me think maybe yes -though this story too big to hide with the Friday PM dogge, I think. The wheels of justice and karma grind very slowly, but they grind inexorably.

“Rove Informs White House He Will Be Indictedâ€

ya know, when you think about it, david shuster most certainly wouldn’t have speculated with such certainty if he hadn’t also been privy to these white house comments.

wanna bet nsa has a big fat file on jason leopold.

This is another article by the infamous Jason Leopold. He does not have a good track record for accuracy.

You have to think the stars line up for the presser/speech to be a diversion for double super bad news like losing your bestest friend to an indictment when he did nothing wrong. True, it is Leopold, but those stars………

Cujo – I have no read on the state secrets approach at all. In general, I can see where a court is going to want to give wide deference to the Govt. OTOH – uh, we have 30 or so corporate execs up to snuff on the program and it is hard to understand what the state secret part is? That there is a capability to get all information on all customers and customer transactions from telecoms if they co-operate? How is that a secret? That the govt IS actually doing such a thing – well, I can see that being secret, but not a “state secret†unless the state is fascist.

Covert govt surveillance activities of tens of millions of its own citizens just doesn’t seem to fit the bill in a democracy. Here’s what doesn’t get called in spades much. MOST criminals keep their crimes secret. The fact that something is kept secret doesn’t automatically make it something worth using the powers of the court to keep secret. Anyway – I have no background and it is an almost never invoked tidbit. I probably will try to pull up cases bc I am just that way (I think Urban Pirate summarized my life and times with “sadly funnyâ€). I don’t know if anyone else has a take on this or not. A judge that wants to play it safe probably dismisses and lets the plaintiffs try for appeal. ????