
...and continuing our legal filing saga from The Miller's Tale, Part I.
On pp. 15-24, Team Libby makes their arguments with regard to the subpoena issues to the NYTimes itself, separate and apart from the one issued to Judy Miller. (Who, as we all know, no longer works for the Gray Lady.) Their first argument hinges on the need to obtain copies of internal notes about interviews done by NYTimes counsel and reporters as part of their clean-up once Judy had testified to the grand jury (and, presumably, in preparation for that testimony and during the whole hold-out period as well). Team Libby wants immediate access to all of those notes and draft articles, without the judge doing an in camera review of the material.
There are all sorts of considerations woven into this argument, not the least of which is a substantial hearsay question -- since they would be getting Judy's words as heard by another person entirely and then written into note form by that other person. Team Libby tries to get around this by making a "business records" argument (fn. 4, p. 16), saying that this is a course of business/contemporaneous record-keeping matter that ought to be discoverable just like meeting minutes or other regular business records are. It's clever, but I don't think the judge is going to buy it hook, line and sinker. I'd look for some sort of in camera review of documents by the judge and his clerks before any decision is made on what is or is not discoverable here.
This is really a nightmare scenario for any prosecutor, by the way -- to have a witness who has given testimony to the grand jury, especially one as flighty as Judy Miller has been, to then be interviewed by others is generally a horrible thing to have to deal with for trial preparation purposes. The absolute worst is to have a witness who then goes on to do a flurry of television interviews -- every time you speak up, the story changes ever so slightly, and a good trial attorney can magnify that a thousandfold on cross examination for the jury. Especially if new memories surface that were not relayed to the grand jury or, worse, the story gets completely mangled in the telling over time. There are ways to deal with it -- including impeaching your own witness up front with the bad news so that you get it out before the jury before defense counsel ever gets there -- but it's never a good thing for trial to have to juggle this sort of thing.
Thankfully, Judy Miller is not the sole witness. We've always known she was going to be a big thorn in the side of the entire process -- but from Team Libby's filing, it is obvious that they plan on making that abundantly clear for any jury that hears this case at trial.
You hear that, Judy -- all that protective weasling on Scooter's behalf bought you a whole helluva lot of loyalty, didn't it? Let this be a lesson to anyone who has to testify in a case -- be it criminal or civil. Any obfuscation, any weaseling, any attempt to spin comes back to bite you in the ass in a big way -- Judy tried to tap dance around to make herself look good and to protect Scooter's flank (at least in her public articles and statements, since we have no way to know exactly what she said to the grand jury at this point), and Scooter Libby's defense attorneys are going to play up every "I don't quite recall." or "I'm just not sure why I wrote that." flightiness for all that it is worth. Because that is their job.
Judy Miller handed them her own head on a platter -- maybe that was intended, I dunno, that whole intertwined aspen roots turning together nonsense -- but if this case goes to trial, it's going to be an ugly ride for Judy on the stand. That it will come from her own words and her own writings makes it all the more powerful.
The odd thing, and Emptywheel covered this so well, is that Judy isn't the central figure of the indictment. And the twisting of the Libby/Miller exchanges -- as well as the twisting of the other issues in this brief with other journalists -- is designed for one purpose alone: defending Scooter by taking the jury's eye off him and putting it anywhere else. The smokescreen defense can be done effectively by a good defense counsel -- but that assumes that the prosecutor isn't good at cutting through the fog. I'm thinking Fitz has been there and back, and that this case is going to be one helluva trial to watch. Hold on to your hats, kids, and I mean that.
On p. 18, Team Libby throws a bone to their donor base supporters:
Mr. Libby can rebut this theory [that Administration officials engaged in a vigorous effort to discredit Wilson by outing his wife] by showing that his conversations with reporters about Mr. Wilson and his trip were necessitated by, and focused upon, the false information being spread by Mr. Wilson, and were not focused upon Mr. Wilson's wife. In that regard, he may seek to elicit testimony from other Administration officials -- including, for example, his subordinates in the Office of the Vice President (OVP) -- to testify that they too were intent on rebutting Mr. Wilson's criticism on the merits; that they saw his wife's CIA affiliation as a peripheral issue (at most); and that they were never instructed by Mr. Libby to disseminate information regarding Ms. Wilson's CIA affiliation to the press.
Gotta keep that good will going among the faithful, even when reporters are digging up new bits of information every single day that undermine this claim and expose it for the kool-aid induced delusion that it is regarding Wilson's claims. But let's take a closer look at the second sentence: Libby's subordinates also knew that Valerie Wilson worked for the CIA. They would have learned that how, exactly? Via the Veep or Libby -- who both signed SF 312 clearance agreements regarding protocols for classified information, including the fact that such material is only to be discussed on a "need to know" basis. I'd like to know just how sloppy the Bush Administration is being with classified information that it just gets spread around the worker bees like so much peanut butter on hot toast. (And why isn't the corporate media asking about this each and every chance they get?) Appalling.
On pp. 18 and 19, Team Libby goes through a wrangle about the NYTimes having documents which may or may not show that Scooter and/or his subordinates did not mention Valerie Wilson to every reporter they saw. They concentrate specifically on Cathie Martin (the public affairs person for the Veep) (see fn. 5, p. 19). I wonder if perhaps Ms. Martin didn't blab Valerie's job status around the block because she actually took her security clearance responsibilities more seriously than her need to get even? It does seem like Ms. Martin and Ari Fleischer are going to get their turn in the potential scapegoat chair as well, though -- remember the more fingers you point in the other direction from Scooter, the more defense counsel gets an opportunity to attempt to confuse the jury. (Don't hate them for doing their job, reasonable doubt is what they have and they will try to raise it on behalf of their client at every opportunity.)
There is an odd bit on pp. 20-21, where Team Libby raises some questions about Marc Grossman and potential bias against Libby. This is a theme that has been woven through a lot of the Libby filings of late, but this time they point to an online article by Jason Leopold at truthout.org to get to a Mike Allen and Dana Priest article in the WaPo to get to documents held by the NYTimes which may or may not have anything to do with Grossman. Whoa, that's like playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, isn't it? How is the NYTimes going to know anything about what Leopold or Priest or Allen suggest in their articles, their sources, or the credibility of any of those sources -- or how they might feel about Scooter? I just don't see the judge buying into this serious stretch to get to other NYTimes sources which may have nothing whatsoever to do with whomever Leopold or Priest or Allen spoke with, or with Scooter Libby's own conduct in lying to the grand jury, the FBI and his attempts to obstruct the investigation -- which, after all, is what Libby is actually charged with here.
In the last part of the NYTimes section, Team Libby gets into a bit of a sticky area dealing with some privilege questions between corporate counsel and Judy Miller in terms of any notes taken during the course of their discussions. I'm not certain as to how the judge will rule on privilege attaching fully here or not, but it's certainly an area of the law that will get a lot further exploration in the hearing on May 16th, I'm sure. It's amusing that the Marie Brenner article in Vanity Fair and Judy's quotes therein come up here. (I suppose it's understandable that Judy would play things up a bit with her pal for a rehabilitation article, after all maintaining that First Amendment Martyr for the 21st Century crown is a full-time job and all, but I'm thinking the manipulative, shilling for your criminal pals tap dance may not cut it any longer for the talent portion of the competition.)
Team Libby makes a big deal of the fact that Judy said she spoke with government officials both before and after the Novak article about Valerie Plame. I'm not so certain this is helpful for Libby overall -- I mean, it does raise some finger pointing issues to potentially make the jury look at others beyond Libby, but that sure as hell walks them into conspiracy territory in the jury's mind, especially if the folks with whom Judy spoke end up being all of Scooter's WHIG compadres. This is a tricky needle to thread, and one that I'm not certain they can viably pull off in front of a jury.
There is much more, but it's going to have to wait for Part III, I'm afraid. And that will be coming up shortly...stay tuned.
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FITZ and COLBERT!
is that scooter standing next to an aspen tree?
colbert . . . fitzzzzzzzz
Is the Grand Jury meeting today?
JeffNYC — no confirmation from any of my sources on that as yet. Will let everyone know if I hear anything.
Not to nit-pick, but I really wish people would stop refering to Ms. Plame as having been “outed.” “Outing” is a term that originally came into use in describing the process of publically disclosing an individual’s double life in the area of their sexuality and seems less than appropriate in this matter. What happened to Agent Plame would be more accurately and effectively framed as a “betrayal,” as in “The Bush administration’s betrayal of secret CIA agent Plame’s identity” seems much more serious and damning than “The Bush administration’s outing of Ms. Plame” rhetorically, don’t you think?
Is that picture from the movie “Breakfast, a Tiff, and Knees”?
The administration could have attacked Joe Wilson without ever bringing his wife into it. In terms of the public discussion on the validity of Joe’s conclusions from his trip to Africa, Joe Wilson’s wife was wholly irrelevant.
teensy typo in an amazing reduction…
plsy, I think you meant play or something wrt the Vanity Fair article.
[Off Topic]
America’s “Top Gay Activist/Blogger” has gone off his rocker again in the comments:
…
Then again, ever since Cynthia McKinney exposed that she’s a fucking nutjob I’ve gotten used to using these issues to weed out the wackjobs and assholes who make up a tiny percentage of those who post in the comments. So, consider this their litmus test. Because they’re not coming back. Disagree with me in a civil manner, fine. Respond like an asshole, and you’re out of here - we don’t need crap like that.
John Aravosis | 05.03.06 - 11:55 am | #
http://americablog.blogspot.co.....arent.html
The angst this time is because Howard Dean fired one of his friends and everyone isn’t suitably outraged.
anne at 8:
I’ll bet they’ve been wishing for a while now they’d followed just that course of action. Or better still, just ignored Wilson altogether. But with psycho Cheney running the show, they weren’t making many reasonable/rational decisions.
Duktig Pojke - Agree 100%. “outed” sounds somewhat trivial. Revealing a CIA agent is a life or death decision. It constitutes betrayal. Libby betrayed a CIA agent’s identity. Not quite grammatically perfect, but it is the clearest way to get the message across.
On another note, the best part about each new Libby motion is the fact that it gives Fitz a chance to draft a response which might contain a new bombshell for Libby and his masters in the administration.
Remember last time - Fitz’s response managed to walk us right up to the president’s doorstep. What is next? Libby’s team has to be wondering…
They would have learned that how, exactly? Via the Veep or Libby — who both signed SF 312 clearance agreements regarding protocols for classified information, including the fact that such material is only to be discussed on a “need to know” basis.
More to the point, what was Libby’s or Cheney’s need to know on this question? There is absolutely no reason for anyone outside of her direct supervisors to know the name of an agent working under non-official cover, and a number of reasons for nobody else to know.
Security is not just about clearances. It’s also about comparmentalization. Being way senior is not the same thing as having a need to know.
Angie at 9 — thanks, it’s fixed.
Duktig #6:
No, Plame was outed as a covert CIA operative. Like a secret gay life, her secret spy life was exposed against her will. It’s the secret part being described, not the sexuality or spy part. No doubt the etymology derives from “the secret is out”.
(This differs from “out of the closet”, which tends to describe a voluntary admission. I’d accept that’s more specifically for homosexuality.)
well then there’s always this:
I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of [CIA] sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors.
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, speech, Apr. 26, 1999
Anne,
You are so correct on that score. I’ve never understood the connection between betraying agent Plame’s covert status and getting back at her husband for his op-ed. I have long felt that the primary objective may have been to scuttle agent Plame’s operation, which as we are now beginning to learn had to do with monitoring and perhaps thwarting the flow of nuclear weapons technology into Iran. Had she been succesful, it would seem to blunt the rationale for a second urgent call for a rush to war as it happened in Iraq. I am of the belief that the Bush administration wants a crisis in Iran so that they can orchestrate favorable public sentiment for war with Iran. Agent Plame and her operation got in the way of their long term goals for war and had to be derailed.
xyz@12 - Your comment about “each new Libby motion” sounds a lot like Christy’s point about the nightmare of witnesses who go on to do lots of public (esp TV) interviews. Christy, I know that attorneys are paid to raise every possible defense, but at what point do weak defense motions and specious arguments become counterproductive? Doesn’t this have the (potential) effect of pissing off the judge by forcing the judge to have to wade through all this?
Frankly, some of Team Libby’s work sounds like a bad high school debate: “We’ll throw out every argument we can, as fast as we can, and if the other side doesn’t knock each one down, then we win!!!” Never mind the merits of the argument, never mind the clarity of the presentation - “we talk faster and in more circles, so we win!”
puppethead -
A secret spy life and a secret gay life are not sufficiently analagous to justify using the same word “out” to describe both.
Using “out” is inapt, and serves to diminish the significance of what happened to Valerie Plame.
Her identity was betrayed. This is just the most accurate way to put it. You could also say “revealed”. Outing has too many other connotations and is less accurate.
Christy,
What do you make of Team Libby’s argument that if others talked about Plame, then their guy wasn’t lying and if others weren’t talking about Plame, that proves their guy wasn’t lying. They make both arguments in footnote 5. Is that a reasonable legal strategy? For this non-lawyer, it just seems silly
William Ockham
It seems silly to this lawyer, too
OT - Tsunami watch for Hawaii and the Pacific. 8.0 quake near fiji/new zealand
Oh goodness, twolf1 — all of our readers on the islands, please stay safe.
Thank you, Christy. Your take on the latest filing is thoughtful and informative, as always, and your conclusions well reasoned. I admit to an odd thrill in being immersed in things Plame again–amazing to me that, after all this time, this is still the only White House scandal/abuse that actually is under serious investigation and is still the best chance of finally exposing the lies, corruption, etc.
I thought you would “enjoy” this piece just out from Clarice Feldman who analyzed the same filing but, as usual, read it through Kool-Aid-colored glasses. What’s always intriguing with Clarice, though, is that, IIRC, she is one of Comstock’s buddies and so you never know when her spin is straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak (and therefore very illuminating.)
http://www.americanthinker.com.....le_id=5465
I quote from Part One and paste here to avoid being EPU’d:
We also learn that Team Libby may have some forensic examination of Judy’s notebooks in mind — “e.g. the color of the ink and the weight of the markings” — in order to determine what may have been going through Judy’s mind at the time of her writing.
I call bullshit; they’re looking for evidence of post facto alterations. Who changes ink color with their state of mind? They’re stopping one inch short of accusing La Judy of tampering with evidence….. (or potential evidence).
OT.
Has anyone seen this story? 3 Iraqis snuck into the United States and are seeking refugee status because they are being persecuted for being Christians in Iraq.
Can things get anymore surreal?
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/state/14483691.htm
-GSD
Duktig @ #6 & #17: I agree on both counts.
The term “outing” or “outed” trivializes what actually IS betrayal. “Outing” makes it seem like a little thing between Valerie and the people who may or may not have hurt her. “Betrayal” faces the reality that what hurt her, hurt her confidants and hurt us, the American people.
Will we ever reliably know why Brewster-Jennings was rolled up at that particular time?
Christy,
What great analysis! If I get in trouble, can I hire you to defend me? Twenty-five years ago, I went through a civil suit scenario - I mean civil suit hell. When my sensible labor law specialty attorney was beginning to get his face wiped in the dirt, a wise friend told me “When you need a lawyer, don’t get a nice expert, get the meanest, most succesful murder attorney within 1,000 miles. That way, if things go downhill, you don’t have to go shopping again.”
I took his advice, fired the nice guy, hired the somewhat sleazy murder expert who was expensive but had never lost a case, and the other side settled as soon as possible.
OT but hurrah for these folks!
>>>>>
The letter entitled “Condoleezza Rice Does Not Deserve a Boston College Honorary Degree,” was written by the Rev. Kenneth Himes, chairman of the department of theology, and the Rev. David Hollenbach, who holds the Margaret O’Brien Flatley chair in the department, and sent to all faculty inviting their signatures.
The theology department said nearly 100 have signed it, but declined to release their names, The Boston Globe reported Wednesday.
Rice was announced Monday as commencement speaker for the May 22 ceremonies. Hollenbach said he has no objection to Rice being a speaker, but said she does not deserve an honorary degree.
“On the levels of both moral principle and practical moral judgment, Secretary Rice’s approach to international affairs is in fundamental conflict with Boston College’s commitment to the values of the Catholic and Jesuit traditions and is inconsistent with the humanistic values that inspire the university’s work,” the letter said.
from boston.com– cannot get the linky to work– dunno why…
hope people in the Pacific are safe…
OT — I just read Americblog re Howard Dean firing someone who is a life partner with a friend of his. Gives no details about why he was fired but John is really mad — threats even. No details exactly why he was fired but suspect Dean felt the inside guy at the DNC was telling tales out of school and Howard Dean did not like that. Who knows, but that could be a big ruckus in the bunkhouse.
xyz says:
May 3rd, 2006 at 9:18 am
Her identity was unlawfully disclosed:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/.....ection_Act
For more information, please refer to Sections 422 through 426.
So when a gay man is outed, that’s not a betrayal? It seems people are trying to hijack a perfectly good usage of English for some politically correct goal.
(This seems completely off-topic.)
Stephen Parrish - How about “ILLEGALLY disclosed”
puppethead - outed just isn’t sufficiently accurate. There are better ways to describe what happened. Let it go.
Here’s the current Pacific Tsunami center bulletin:
WEPA41 PAAQ 031543
TSUWCA
TO - TSUNAMI WARNING SYSTEM PARTICIPANTS IN
ALASKA/BRITISH COLUMBIA/WASHINGTON/OREGON/CALIFORNIA
FROM - WEST COAST AND ALASKA TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS
SUBJECT - TSUNAMI ADVISORY - INITIAL
BULLETIN NUMBER 1
ISSUED 05/03/2006 AT 1543 UTC
…THIS TSUNAMI ADVISORY BULLETIN IS FOR ALASKA - BRITISH
COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON AND CALIFORNIA ONLY…
NO - REPEAT NO - WATCH OR WARNING IS IN EFFECT FOR THE STATES
AND PROVINCES LISTED ABOVE.
EVALUATION
BASED ON THE LOCATION - MAGNITUDE AND HISTORICAL RECORDS
THE EARTHQUAKE WAS NOT SUFFICIENT TO GENERATE A TSUNAMI DAMAGING
TO CALIFORNIA - OREGON - WASHINGTON - BRITISH COLUMBIA OR ALASKA.
SOME OF THESE AREAS MAY EXPERIENCE SMALL SEA LEVEL CHANGES.
IN COASTAL AREAS OF INTENSE SHAKING LOCALLY GENERATED TSUNAMIS
CAN BE TRIGGERED BY UNDERWATER LANDSLIDES.
EARTHQUAKE DATA
PRELIMINARY MAGNITUDE - 8.1
LOCATION - 19.9S 174.3W
- TONGA ISLANDS
TIME - 0727 ADT 05/03/2006
0827 PDT 05/03/2006
1527 UTC 05/03/2006
THE PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER AT EWA BEACH HAWAII HAS
ISSUED A TSUNAMI WARNING FOR AREAS OF THE PACIFIC OUTSIDE OF
CALIFORNIA/ OREGON/ WASHINGTON/ BRITISH COLUMBIA AND ALASKA.
TSUNAMI ADVISORIES ARE ISSUED TO REGIONS NOT PRESENTLY IN A
TSUNAMI WARNING OR WATCH WHEN A TSUNAMI WARNING HAS BEEN ISSUED
FOR OTHER AREAS OF THE PACIFIC. NO TSUNAMI WARNING OR WATCH
IS IN EFFECT FOR CALIFORNIA - OREGON - WASHINGTON - BRITISH
COLUMBIA AND ALASKA
A FEW SELECTED ETA’S FOLLOW FOR INFORMATION AND REFERENCE
LA JOLLA-CA 1940 PDT MAY 3 TOFINO-BC 2050 PDT MAY 3
SAN FRANCISCO-CA 1959 PDT MAY 3 SITKA-AK 1959 ADT MAY 3
CRESCENT CITY-CA 1953 PDT MAY 3 KODIAK-AK 1946 ADT MAY 3
NEAH BAY-WA 2050 PDT MAY 3 SHEMYA-AK 1806 ADT MAY 3
ADVISORY BULLETINS WILL BE ISSUED HOURLY TO KEEP YOU INFORMED OF
THE PROGRESS OF THIS EVENT UNTIL THE PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER
ISSUES A CANCELLATION OR FINAL BULLETIN. REFER TO THE INTERNET
SITE WCATWC.ARH.NOAA.GOV FOR FURTHER INFORMATION.
$$
“his subordinates in the Office of the Vice President (OVP) — to testify that they too were intent on rebutting Mr. Wilson’s criticism on the merits; that they saw his wife’s CIA affiliation as a peripheral issue (at most);”
Isn’t this statement damaging in that they admit that not only did Bush, Cheney, and Libby know at the time of her CIA status, but a number of Libby’s subordinates knew as well?
Why would so many people know at that time if 1) it wasn’t an important piece of information to the administration and 2) it was supposedly just gossip overheard from journalists?
Did these subordinates have proper clearance to know her status? This info. is available on a need to know basis only - are they trying to say his subordinates needed to know even though they thought it was “peripheral (at most)”?
We now have a roadmap for a birdflu pandemic… introduced in a big shiny, pretty red and blue book by Fran Townsend. whew I feel so much better knowing these goons are there to protect us. NOT.
big gaseous presser on teevee now.
isn’t it suitably ironic that
U.S. vs Nixon is the first citation in the latest Libby filing?
Duktig Pojke at 17
Their handling of the Iraq war has them at 32 percent. I don’t know why they believe another war will help them. But then, they are who they are - out of touch with reality.
Earthquake Details
Magnitude 8.0 (Great)
Date-Time Wednesday, May 3, 2006 at 15:26:35 (UTC) = Coordinated Universal Time
Thursday, May 4, 2006 at 4:26:35 AM = local time at epicenter
Location 20.035°S, 174.227°W
Depth 16.1 km (10.0 miles) (poorly constrained)
Region TONGA
Distances 155 km (95 miles) S of Neiafu, Tonga
160 km (100 miles) NE of NUKU’ALOFA, Tonga
455 km (280 miles) S of Hihifo, Tonga
2145 km (1340 miles) NNE of Auckland, New Zealand
Location Uncertainty horizontal +/- 7.9 km (4.9 miles); depth +/- 32.2 km (20.0 miles)
Not a good day in Tonga, but it’s far enough away to not do very much damage. It is a Rude Awakening, though (been there, done that…).
” She was outed”
*SLAP!*
” She was betrayed!”
*SLAP!*
” She was outed AND betrayed!”
Not that there’s anything wrong with that…if yr Phill Agee or somebody. The problem with this case is ‘ Mission Impossible 1′. Too many people have seen that and know that you don’t ever let the NOC list out in the open.
See what happen’s when Mole hunt’s get out of control. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Wonder what Clark Kent think’s about all this?
Personally I’ve a feeling that the Hindenturd coming down in a storm could suddenly catch a scooterized sized spark and go up in plames.
Okay, is it me, or is anyone else immediately wondering why they are trotting out the bird flu pandemic today? Hmmmm…I am getting cynical, aren’t I?
xyz says:
May 3rd, 2006 at 9:37 am
Yes, that is also appropriate.
lina @38–
and just a reminder on that other war in the deliberately forgotten space of Afghanistan conducted by these morons:
>>>>>
TIRIN KOT, Afghanistan, April 27 — Building on a winter campaign of suicide bombings and assassinations and the knowledge that American troops are leaving, the Taliban appear to be moving their insurgency into a new phase, flooding the rural areas of southern Afghanistan with weapons and men.
Each spring with the arrival of warmer weather, the fighting season here starts up, but the scale of the militants’ presence and their sheer brazenness have alarmed Afghans and foreign officials far more than in previous years.
“The Taliban and Al Qaeda are everywhere,” a shopkeeper, Haji Saifullah, told the commander of American forces in Afghanistan, Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, as the general strolled through the bazaar of this town to talk to people. “It is all right in the city, but if you go outside the city, they are everywhere, and the people have to support them. They have no choice.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05.....nted=print
Christy @ 41– you are not cynical, just all too familiar with their shenanigans…
Sorry to be off topic but here’s some more “good news” from Riverbend:
“Just as soon as Washington makes a move against Tehran, American troops inside Iraq will come under attack. It’s that simple- Washington has big guns and planes… But Iran has 150,000 American hostages.”
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
the Libby team’s filings are dizzying but make me wonder–as murky as their reasoning and fuzzy as their facts seem to be so far, couldn’t a jury hear all this and think–Yeah, these guys could obstruct justice and lie because they can’t even think straight?
Love the dismissive attitude, xyz. If there was no desire to debate a point, it shouldn’t have been brought up as a question.
41, Ms. Smith…first, thank you for the good work on the latest in Plame-land. As to your query, I snapped on the TV monitor and caught a bit of the bird flu briefing….I wondered the same thing.
Ghostman
OT
Top Dem attacks Colbert
By Evan Derkacz
Posted on May 3, 2006, Printed on May 3, 2006
http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/evan/35781/
“This is just heartbreakingly stupid suck-up-ness on the part of Maryland’s Steny Hoyer. John Aravosis writes: “Sure, George Bush is plumetting in the polls. So what does Steny Hoyer do? The Hill newspaper reports that he takes a cheap shot at someone who’s out there defending the party and taking the president on.”
“I thought some of it was funny, but I think it got a little rough,” Hoyer said. “He is the president of the United States, and he deserves some respect.”
“I’m certainly not a defender of the administration,” Hoyer reassured stunned observers, but Colbert “crossed the line†with many jokes that were “in bad taste.” [VIDEO.]
Bad taste?! Bad taste?! Are you f-ing kidding me? If anyone came to me, as a nationally recognized figure, and asked with the camera and lights on whether I thought Stephen Colbert’s speech was in “bad taste” I would try to avoid the drool accumulating in the corners of my mouth and say:
“You know what’s in bad taste? Trampling on the Constitution, sending people to other countries to be tortured, starting a war on false pretenses that has taken the lives of over 2000 soldiers and untold Iraqis, many of whom were women and children, sending people, without trial, in the most un-American fashion to a black hole off the coast where they sit and rot without hope of release, tortured because the president has played with the law to make it difficult to prosecute, spying on Americans illegally and claiming he can do it like some kind of a monarch.
And you wanna talk about a comedian’s jokes being in bad taste? Shame on you.
So I paraphrase Heathers the next time someone asks why the Dems don’t win elections: Because you’re an idiot, Dad.”
Give the Democratic Whip, Rep. Hoyer an earful!
Washington Office
1705 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Phone - (202) 225-4131
Fax - (202) 225-4300
Back to Top
OT - Earthquake downgraded from 8.0 to 7.8 — but that’s coming from the mouth of someone that allegedly dated rush lumblough
OT again; sorry:
>>>>>
WASHINGTON — The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, accusing the White House of a ”very blatant encroachment” on congressional authority, said yesterday he will hold an oversight hearing into President Bush’s assertion that he has the power to bypass more than 750 laws enacted over the past five years.
”There is some need for some oversight by Congress to assert its authority here,” Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, said in an interview. ”What’s the point of having a statute if . . . the president can cherry-pick what he likes and what he doesn’t like?”
Specter said he plans to hold the hearing in June. He said he intends to call administration officials to explain and defend the president’s claims of authority, as well to invite constitutional scholars to testify on whether Bush has overstepped the boundaries of his power.
(the closing graf):
”We’re undergoing a tsunami here with the flood coming from the executive branch on one side and the judicial branch on the other,” Specter said. ”There may as well soon not be a Congress. . . . And I think that most members don’t understand what’s happening.”
http://www.boston.com/news/nat.....rs/?page=1
Christy - have you seen this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12607854/
Jeff at #10, I gave up on Aravosis months ago. Too bad, I thought he was pretty good.
Now, he is just a parody of himself.
It does seem to me quite the “up is down” defense if they are claiming that they were trying to get out the truth in response to Joe Wilson’s “lies.” It seems that Amabassador Joe has a lot more proof to his pudding than team asshats do. Maybe Luskin is opening a door (unintentionally, the fool) to get those Italiano forgeries into the record. Damned facts and their liberal bias!
puppethead -
It wasn’t brought up as a question. I was making a point which you happen to disagree with. All I am saying is that there are better ways to describe the illegal disclosure of Valerie Plame’s identity than that she was “outed”. If you want to stick with outed, that is your perogative. But by doing so, you are playing into the hands of those who seek to trivialize the illegal disclosure of a CIA agent.
Bravo, Christy…looking forward to reading your posts at leisure later.
Meanwhile OT, just wanted to share the email I just sent the DNC after receiving one of their whitebread emails touting some little canvassing event they held over the weekend….
Dear Dr. Dean, et al.
I’m unsubscribing from the DNC’s mailing list, as I’ve done from the DSCC and DCCC. Before I do, a brief comment.
You’re touting your “unprecedented” “action” on April 29. Excuse me, but on April 29 I was marching against the current war on Iraq, which Democrats failed to prevent, and the impending war on Iran, which Democrats aren’t lifting a goddamn finger to thwart.
I and at least 200,000 other marchers, and the millions in sympathy with our outrage, are the real base. Feel free to call us should you ever decide to give a shit about what we think.
Recently, hasn’t Tyler Drunheller (sp?) stated that as far back as Fall, 2002 CIA concluded the Niger-yellowcake claim to be bogus? If so…doesn’t this conflict with the Libby filing, which seems to say, we (Libby) acted properly in attempting to refute false information published by Mr. Wilson?
Ghostman
test
Re #24, *snort* - that ‘article’ by Clarice is so over the top, I actually think it hurts the kool-aid drinkers. Of course, Clarice has insisted that 9/11 commission covered up an Iraq/Al Queda connection and the CIA knows that Iraqi WMD were moved to Syria ….
Libby’s arguments are becoming quite surreal now ….
Russert’s lying
Mitchell’s lying
Cooper’s lying
Miller’s lying (for me but I don’t care)
Other reporters at NBC, NY Times, WPost are lying
added to:
Ari’s lying
other administration officials lying
State Dept officials lying
CIA Dept officials lying
SP lying
Gee, everybody is lying except for ole Scooter.
ralphbon #56– bravo! I got the same mailing promising pictures and was really heartened thinking it would be of the protest and that he might have been there.
I opened it and was oh, so disappointed.
You have inspired me to write to them. ;)
I’ve also been trying to figure out how the fact that others were talking about Valerie absolves Libby from (1) also talking about her and then (2) lying about it.
I’m pretty sure that the non-disclosure form all of those White House-types had to sign doesn’t say that you are released from the agreement if others are violating it, or that if two people disclose to the same individual, the only one who is in trouble is the one who disclosed first.
As for Judy Miller, it may be that she thought that she and Libby (among others, possibly) were operating under the journalistic equivalent of Mutually Assured Destruction – that for any of them to rat out the others would also assure their own downfall – and that is why there is collective amnesia and deliberate muddying of the waters. What they have not counted on is that it probably only takes one person, with sufficient knowledge and a grant of immunity, to bring the whole thing crashing down.
Christy #41 - I was wondering that too. All they know and have left is the scare tactic. It’s getting a lot of news time which makes less news time for all the criminal investigations and poor approval ratings that they are currently experiencing (and deservedly so).
Right now I am watching laura bush yap on and on on CNN - live from somewhere her husband has never been - a library.
I went to Just One Minute last night and after I read the Libby .pdf I read through the comments there. There were a gaggle of people there who I’d seen at Larry Johnson’s blog trying to whip up a frenzy by asking supposedly challenging questions in the rudest possible way. They were breathlessly awaiting Clarice’s “genius” post which she was also commenting on. They seem to run in a pair, kim and sue, so we should be on alert for them here. It was rather pathetic to see how they took the motion and just wrung it out for their own perspective. I had been able to read there before, albeit without much agreement, but I was literally startled to see that the rhetoric was so twisted and full of nonsense.
Substantial this is not, but rawstory is now reporting that ABC is reporting that the grand jury in the CIA leak case MAY be meeting today.
OT (again) “According to Pew, 55 per cent of white evangelicals approve of Mr Bush, down from the start of his second term when he had 72 per cent approval ratings; 35 per cent have an unfavourable view of Mr Bush, against 21 per cent of evangelical voters in October 2004.”
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/6f25d.....e2340.html
Laura thinks w is muy, mucho, muy, muy caliente.
as Redd would say, blergh.
Gin Soaked Raisin Brain Dilletante Hitchens vs. Patriot Juan Cole
.
Off topic but urgent - the pro-war with Iran people are ramping up their smear campaign.
*poof*
puppethead #47
If it is any consolation, in linguistics there are prescriptivists and descriptivists. Prescriptivists are a definite minority in the field, even something of an anachronism. These are the ones who say, Hey you can’t say that. Descriptivists point out whether somebody likes a particular structure or usage it is out there and part of the language as it is. They leave the ’should bes’ to others.
tsunami update - small tsunami detected. Tsunami watch downgraded to tsunami advisory for Hawaii.
angie–she said that in a library?
wondering, yes. after saying that everyone in the WH knows w has great sense of humor and how much she enjoyed his double skit the other nite and then JKing asked her about the muy caliente part and she giggled. Said that is one of the reasons she married him– cause he makes her laugh (too bad he makes us sob and cry and grit our teeth and throw things)
and then Kyra asked her thru John if she thought w. was muy caliente and she uttered the above posted tripe.
p.s. she did not mention Colbert and was not asked about it by the dutiful bootlicking press.
xyz at 55,
It’s “prerogative.”
Christy #41 - I saw bird flu/pandemic stories on NBC, CBS and CNN last evening. I can’t decide if this is a function of the media having disaster withdrawal or if it’s something else. Maybe they’re all working the poultry futures market…
they should know by now that by the time bird flu does show up here, they will have cried “wolf!” so often that the majority of people will ignore the warnings.
Between the “be very afraid” bird flu stories, the failure of any of the MSM to confront the oil industry execs with the reality that passing on increased costs should leave profits flat, not booming, their abject failure to address serious political and constitutional issues, and their pandering to the right-wing (still), network news has become a parody of itself.
angie - monkeys make people laugh too
OT - Just listened to Marcy Winograd, who’s running to take Jane Harmon’s seat, (CA-36), on local public radio. Ripped into BushCo war plans on Iran, bypassing FISA, no Congressional oversight, etc. Very quick and with a good grasp of the issues raised. Called Harmon the “queen of backsliders” for talking tough on Bush, only to fall back in line when it mattered. She’s not in my district, but sure sounds good to me.
outed, betrayed, illegally disclosed…how about illegally EXPOSED?
OK, Steny’s getting a call today.
angie #51
“There may as well soon not be a Congress. . . . And I think that most members don’t understand what’s happening.”
I love it. Arlen’s going to hold hearings. Well he’s accomplished so much with that in the past. As for the quote above, it only took the perspicacious Arlen 5 years to tumble to Bush’s unitary executive and he’s feeling bright because the other members are even slower off the mark than he is. Truly alternate reality stuff. Thanks.
ralphbon (56) — you might as well have sent that email to me instead of Dr. Dean.
You see, I am one of the grassroots Deaniacs that asked Dr. Dean to become chair of the DNC — for the reason that the Democratic Party failed to live up to its values between 2000-2004. Dean is my hope that top-down we’ll begin to change this party; the grassroots (including all those folks who canvassed AND marched on 29-APR) are Dean’s hope to change the party from the bottom up. If you have a problem it’s with the entrenched, corporatist and consultant-ocracy in the middle of the party, obstructing change.
While I applaud your rejection of DSCC and DCCC (throw in DLC for a triple), I believe you are misguided in blaming Dean and the posse he brought in to reform the Party. Think about the other candidates for his position, like Roemer and Fowler; what kind of change would they have effected in the same amount of time? Would that have been sufficiently clear-eyed and pragmatic enough to implement a 50-State Strategy, let alone envision one? We lost many seats and issues by mere handfuls of votes across this entire country in 2002 and 2004; it’s time we did more than march to get out the vote. And Dean is doing it, precinct by precinct, voter by voter.
If you have any issues about this war, take it up with the folks who actually voted for it and the folks who enabled them — like Terry McAuliffe. Don’t attack one of the very few Dems who clearly said on the primary campaign trail that Iraq was a mistake.
good grief, in a library–is nothing sacred anymore?
Diversionary and inadequate [phoney?] bird flu plan photo-op and Lady Laura in the Library with the agua noncaliente [as close as I can come to Kool-Aid] trumped by earthquake / tsunami warning. God has looked down upon Georgie-Boy and She is pissed.
Is the recent spate of speaking-out generals an effort by the military to get it right this time — before the Iranvasion begins?
Great analysis, Christy–we who graduated from college with an incomplete in Con Law salute you. [And yep, the bio-scaring bird flu stuff does reek of diversion. Love the swans line…will think of it every time we watch the tundra swans at the cabin.]
I just assumed the bird flu drumbeat was the kickoff to jumpstart Rumsfeld’s defense fund with Tamiflu proceeds.
All tsunami warnings have been canceled.
zennurse,
I think you caught the commenters at Justoneminute on an unusually level-headed day. The week before Libby was indicted, several over there were giddy because they thought FitzGerald was actually going to indict Joe Wilson and/or David Corn. Now they think FitzGerald is an incompetent pro-Dem mediahog who ought to be investigated for his obviously unethical behavior. clarice is spearheading that particular piece of wisdom. Of course, clarice “knows” that Iraq did have WMD, “knows” that Iraq was behind the 1993 attack on the WTC *and* the Oklahoma City bombing *and* the anthrax letters, and “knows” that John Kerry, along with the liberal MSM and Joe Wilson, actually set up the Bush White House by inticing them to “out” Plame. clarice is insane. While the proprietor of that website doesn’t necessarily endorse the whackiest of clarice’s theories, he/she does pimp her website comments and articles on the main page frequently, which is sad. Or hilarious, depending on your temperment.
Of late, commenters there think Matt Cooper may be facing jail.
Anne #74
Are birds the new terrorists? Osama bin Starling, anyone? Perhaps Cheney’s shooting quail should be seen for the patriotic act it was: a preemptive strike on our nation’s newest enemy.
Hugh– WE understand that and why oh why does he act like this is new news? I simply cannot understand why the hearings have not been conducted yesterday, today or tomorrow. Why June? How many more breaks do the buffoons need? As far as I am concerned they should be working late into the nite, every nite on this. I can guarantee you there are plenty of experts and Constitutional scholars that would be only too willing to set aside as much time as necessary. The admin should be put under oath and all necessary documentation subpoenaed. As for the Judiciary coming at them in his tsunami metaphor– he’s the chairman and the rollover who put them on the bench. aargh.
wondering # 80– seems not. and she wasn’t whispering either…
Re: the Dean 50 state canvassing, I think in many respects it was historic in terms of the person-to-person contact. There is no reason to condemn one democratic action in favor of another. Dean was not in the streets with protestors, but neither was I; it doesn’t make his contribution of thousands of individuals in the streets of other states any less helpful. When I think about Dean, I think of how glad I am that he’s doing the DNC thing, becuase there could have been a much less progressive choice. None of those enmeshed in the machine will ever live up to our expectations fully (Well, there is Russ Feingold), and I think we have to take the efforts as a whole.
ralphbon (56) — BTW, that canvassing event had been in the works since 15-NOV-05, when Dean announced the 50-State Strategy.
Since you’ve unsubscribed to the DNC’s mail list, note that you might expect more conflicts with your marching schedule if the grassroots canvass 3 to 6 more times between now and Election Day. Statistics show that voters are persuaded to vote for your candidate and issue with a minimum of (3) physical contacts during a campaign. If memory serves, Crashing the Gate makes this observation, too.
lurker, I just went over to check out No Quarter (Larry Johnson) who I love to read, and there were sue and kim, flamethrowing. Thanks for the background on clarice, I had no idea who she was. It takes a really creative mind to imagine that Kerry is involved. I can’t really manage reading her post, but I’m glad to know about her, kind of like I’m glad to know about redstate and the bogeyman.
Angie @ 51&86
To me, this is what makes the Repugs effective. Everyone is on message, and everyone has a role to play.
I don’t trust Specter; his role is to talk tough. His BS gives the repugs coverage in the press against a damaging report, this one about the 750 laws.
Last week it was tough talk about the cutting off funding to the NSA wiretap program (illegal, and never congressionally approved.)
On this one, he will sound tough (good press), then the story will die down, and he will hold a few hearings, during which Specter will throw a few underhand pitches to Gonzo, nod his head and say “Oh, I see…, very serious, and very necessary.” Then, he may cut funding, for some already redundant part of the program.
Outcome: instant, explicit approval for the wiretap program from the Judicial Oversight Committee!
See, that is his role. In return for some tough talk against Bush, he has to carry major water, and as a bonus, he can say “I held Bush accountable”.
Rayne @ 10:44 am (#79) - I agree wholeheartedly. Dean is doing what he can to make the party matter to people who don’t live in blue states. That is a change that’s at least two election cycles overdue. As head of the DNC, his influence over what established polititicians say and do about Iran and other issues is limited.
Arlen also has still not tumbled to the fact that his same, deferential, “President doesn’t have to follow FISA bc, well, he’s the President” follows to its logical conclusion on all of those other items too.
Tieing the funding is a joke. First off, you can’t really tie black budget funding in any very workable way unless you do want to crater important programs as well. Second and more importantly, they already sent up at least one bill the required briefings to Congress as a condition to interval funds releases and after it was passed, Bush - - -
- - - affixed a signing statement saying that he’d take the $$$ thankyouverymuch but briefing couldn’t be required bc that impinged his authority.
Specter is suddenly - now that lawsuits are pending on things like the ATT morass and we really truly are looking at the Govt shutting it down under state secrets, and now that DOJ is about to start tossing more journalists in jail, and now that Iran has been set, by Congress and DOJ, as a unilateral decision by the President (with the surreal aspect of CIA and Ex-Military rather than lawyers and Congress drawing the line in the sand) etc.
NOW he thinks he’ll pay attention.
It’s all a bit on the late side, like posthumus pardon.
OT, but you may want to see Louise Slaughter’s post at kos, and her upcoming speech on lobbying reform. She calls the Republican bill “snake oil”.
Slaughter
BTW Katrina vanden Heuvel from the Nation was on a Charlie Rose segment last night. She used the “Had enough” meme of, is it, TeddyfromSanFran from here at FDL. Nice to see some of these ideas are spreading.
Am very skeptical about the depth of Specter’s commitment to getting to the truth about the wiretapping program; I know he’s talking about hearings, which is progress from just making statements to the press, but remember that this is the guy who is pretty selective about which witnesses need to be sworn in and which do not.
Why wait until June? Have