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I watched the 60 Minutes segment tonight on the Niger uranium intelligence and thought it was very much of a piece with the Rolling Stone Worst President In History cover -- a simple, direct narrative that will reach millions of Americans and let them know that they have been duped. We talk about this stuff all the time on the blogs but it's not often things this clearly damning are so widely disseminated. Shock waves feel like they are starting to ripple out and it's hard to know how far they are going to extend.
If you didn't catch it you can see part of the video at C&L and read about it here. They interviewed Joe Wilson but didn't get into the exposure of his wife as a CIA agent -- they kept it quite simply about the intelligence on Niger uranium, the 16 words and the myriad sources who told the Administration that the claims were bogus from the get. As Atrios notes there's nothing really new, but it does play havoc with claims of the authoritarian cultists that Bush acted in good faith, relying on credible intelligence. In the wake of all of the mounting evidence to the contrary, their sad little sputtering cries of "but....but...the SSCI report...Robb/Silberman...many many committees...." really just go to reinforce what a pile of partisan hatchet jobs all these investigations were to distort their findings so blatantly and overlook everything they knew then (but we are only learning now).
To all the newcomers: welcome to the party.
Update: As others have noted, the Swiftboating of Tyler Drumheller is likely to be centered around claims that he's just pimping his new book, On the Brink: How the White House Has Compromised American Intelligence. Should be an interesting read.
(photo corrected by Sadly, No!)
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Fitz! I did it!
Good 4 u
fitz ‘em if ya got ‘em.
Just who in the HELL is that guy???
I’m glad I don’t know, but now I have to ask.
Kazuza
Oh, it’s the whistleblower isn’t it?
Is that Baron Harkonnen? Man, if House Harkonnen is bailing on Bush, he’s really in trouble.
Kazuza?
What’s a Kazuza?
Do you play ‘Yankee doodle’on it?
as jane says….
We talk about this stuff all the time on the blogs but it’s not often things this clearly damning are so widely disseminated.
The wheels are coming off..slowly yet surely
beware the wounded cayotes
I saw the program and also thought it was simple and direct and on topic. Tyler Drumheller — a 26-year veteran of the agency- did a good deed. Hope he has himself a good set of oars, for the swiftboating is likely to come pretty fast. Hannity will be calling him a traitor tomorrow night and Rush will have him hung out to dry by lunchtime and Coulter will want to send him abroad with a Katrina “refugee” under each arm. Thanks Tyler!
He is Tyler Drumheller and one hell of an American, imho. Great interview.
(CBS) When no weapons of mass destruction surfaced in Iraq, President Bush insisted that all those WMD claims before the war were the result of faulty intelligence. But a former top CIA official, Tyler Drumheller — a 26-year veteran of the agency — has decided to do something CIA officials at his level almost never do: Speak out.
He tells correspondent Ed Bradley the real failure was not in the intelligence community but in the White House. He says he saw how the Bush administration, time and again, welcomed intelligence that fit the president’s determination to go to war and turned a blind eye to intelligence that did not.
I watched the 60 minutes segment and agree, Jane. It was a clear, lean, line of narrative. Wilson, again, is, as always to me, credible. I don’t know about shock waves, but the steady drip, drip, drip, is buckling the floorboards. Eventually, they’re gonna give to expose the rotting foundation. Whatever supporters remain will not be able to fight on every front, every day. The leaks are multipyling.
boy, i hope this had a big audience. this was a wonderfully simple piece. even if you’d been living in cave in the south pacific you’d know immediately what, and who, the story was.
after watching all the minute details of this story unfold over time, it was a relief to see it laid out so neatly. TD was great. smart and never slick.
MORE LEAKERS, HANDLEY LEAKED CIA AGENT SPANN’S NAME?
THIS COMES FROM WAYNE MADSEN SO TAKE IT WITH A HUGE BLOCK OF SALT BUT….
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/
April 22, 2006 — As Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald meets with the Washington grand jury examining evidence against Karl Rove and others in the leaking of the name of Valerie Plame Wilson and her Brewster Jennings non-official cover (NOC) firm in a vendetta orchestrated by the Bush White House, WMR has been told by a very reliable source with high-level connections to the intelligence community that National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley is now under investigation for the leaking of the names of two CIA “NOCS” to the media. One is Plame Wilson. The other was the leaking of the name of CIA officer Johnny “Mike” Spann, a CIA NOC officer who transferred to the CIA’s paramilitary Special Activities Division after 9-11 and was killed during a November 25, 2001 prison riot by Taliban detainees in Mazar-i-Sharif, Afghanistan. According to the source, Hadley, who was then deputy to then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, leaked Spann’s CIA identity to galvanize American public opinion in support of the Bush administration’s policies. In October 2003, Spann’s father said his son’s name, address, and CIA status were revealed before adequate measures could be taken to protect his son’s wife and children.
Hadley reportedly involved in the leak of two CIA agents’ names
But there were other ramifications. Spann, like Plame Wilson, had established his own network of informants through his covert activities as a NOC. Spann’s network was put in as much jeopardy as Plame Wilson’s counter-proliferation team. Spann had established a circle of informants and brokers in the Pashtun tribal areas on the Afghan-Pakistani border, among General Abdul Rashid Dostum’s Uzbek forces in northwestern Afghanistan, Omani informants in the port city of Gwadar in Baluchistan, and Iranian intelligence personnel in Afghanistan who had operated against the Taliban and Al Qaeda. When Spann’s name and identity were revealed, Al Qaeda and Taliban supporters knew who among their ranks and in Afghanistan and neighboring countries had been dealing with Spann. The White House leak of Spann’s name directly led to the murders of some of these informants and agents of influence.
The Spann disclosure also involved Robert Novak, one of the journalists involved in the leaking by the White House of Plame Wilson’s name. In a December 3, 2001 column, Novak tried to cover for Hadley by blaming the leak of Spann’s name and identity on then-CIA director George Tenet. However, the actual leaker was reportedly Hadley, who may have been acting on the orders of more senior officials. Tenet only acknowledged Spann as a CIA agent after someone leaked the name to the media. That “someone” was reportedly Hadley. The White House leaks about the CIA’s covert roles in Afghanistan began with the publication of a detailed story in The Washington Post on November 18, 2001 by Bob Woodward that put CIA covert agents in Afghanistan at risk. Seven days later, one of those covert agents was killed. It is not yet known if Hadley was a source for Woodward’s story but it is a subject of Fitzgerald’s current investigation. As with the Plame Wilson leak, the revelations about Spann triggered an internal CIA damage assessment. The Spann and Plame Wilson/Brewster Jennings leaks by the White House have expanded the Fitzgerald probe into an investigation of a massive conspiracy by the Bush administration that broke a number of national security laws and did irreparable harm to the national security of the United States.
In another development, the exposure of the Brewster Jennings team is continuing to have devastating effects on various informants involved in the A Q Khan nuclear smuggling network. One Turkish player in the network, Gunes Cire, head of Eti Elektronik, died suddenly in 2004 after his company was implicated by the Turkish Directorate General of Customs Control in the export of nuclear materials to Gulf Technical Industries in Dubai either directly or via Malaysia. From Dubai the materials were shipped to Pakistan and Libya. Another Turk, Selim Alguadish, head of EKA Elektronik and 3E Endustriyel Sanayi, was arrested in Germany for extradition to Turkey. Alguadish was linked to Urs Tinner, who was reportedly working with the CIA to provide faulty nuclear components to the Malaysian front for the A Q Khan network, Scomi Precision Engineering. Another Turk who was the focus of U.S. intelligence was Zeki Bilmen, the owner of Giza Technologies of Secaucus, New Jersey. Bilmen provided nuclear trigger spark gaps via a South African-Israeli named Asher Karni, the owner of South Africa-based Top-Cape, who then sent them to the A Q Khan network in Pakistan. With respect to Bilmen and Karni, when it was discovered that the A Q Khan network that was supplying nuclear components to Iran, North Korea, and, possibly, Saudi Arabia, had a potentially significant Israeli-connected component, the pursuit of that particular avenue by the CIA ground to a screeching halt.
The CIA’s counter-proliferation work has historically suffered from exposures and interference from all the Bush administrations. In 1989, one of Valerie Plame Wilson’s predecessor’s in the CIA’s Counter-Proliferation Division, Richard Barlow, was fired after he uncovered the involvement of the George H. W. Bush administration in facilitating the A Q Khan network and Pakistan’s nuclear weapons program. The Bush administration did not want to alienate Pakistan, a key ally in the mujaheddin war against the Soviet Union. One of the individual’s involved in muzzling and punishing Barlow was then-Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney’s Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy — Stephen Hadley.
Sopranos was weird as shit tonight.
Re topic: wheels coming off american nazi project. humans reclaiming.
Zennurse - I wanted to change things up based on the Delurk comments about “Fitz”-ing.
If it turns out by the time of the next thread that no one has given a correct answer, I will let you in on it.
congrats ccmask, ya bastid!
Isn’t Kazuza from Neopets?
This is what I wrote over at Atrios’:
When I first heard about the 60 minutes story I said to myself “like…who is this guy and why haven’t we heard any of this information?”
Josh does a good job showing what he said should be authoratative, and why we never heard about it. People who were doing the “investigating” were covering for the Bush administration all the way.
This should be ample reason for the Dems NOT to wait for a congressional investigation into NSA wiretapping. There is NO WAY the current congress can conduct a proper investigation of any kind on this current administration.
CENSURE BUSH NOW!
Isis2 - 60 Minutes is almost always a top ten show. The nation saw it.
Makes one (me at least) wonder whether the CIA (regardless of Goss) has declared war on all things Chimpco. If they have, couldn’t happen to a nicer admin.
OT, but has anyone linked to this as yet? Or is it a hoax?
“Bush Impeachment - The Illinois State Legislature is Preparing to Drop a Bombshell
.
Utilizing a little known rule of the US House to bring Impeachment charges.”
http://www.opednews.com/articl.....nt___t.htm
I think with numbers this low, we can look forward to not another war: another 9/11 attack. Again, it will be done by the Admin against the country, just like 9/11.
Garafalo said it best on Air America Radio: “9/11 was an inside job.”
Check out photographic proof that the columns at the WTC were cut with thermite, not burning jet fuel, etc. The Towers (and building 7) were felled by a controlled explosion. Thermite explains why the site remaining burning hot for days. Jet fuel does not burn that hot.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/c.....read=87932
www.whatreallyhappened.com
“We talk about this stuff all the time on the blogs but it’s not often things this clearly damning are so widely disseminated. Shock waves feel like they are starting to ripple out and it’s hard to know how far they are going to extend.”
Very true. Also, the average “60 Minutes” viewers age is about 59. Add to that, about 30% of the population doesn’t have Internet access and a large portion of those are senior citizens, AND dedicated voters.
neopets… is that like a new puppy?
EPU, first 20 responses on Google are mostly in russian or similar language. Still lost, but it would make a great last name for zennurse, wouldn’t it?
zennurse zazuza.
Hard to type, though.
There’s more about this from Josh Marshall. He spoke to Drumheller:
For the latest PlameGate and Iraq WMD news, reports, documents, timelines and more, see:
- “The PlameGate Scandal Resource Center”
- “The Iraq WMD Intelligence Center.”
EPU — i’m glad to hear it. i know it used to be at the top of the ratings but thought it slipped in the last few years. it’ll be interesting to hear what the ratings were.
it does seem like war has broken out though it must have been building since plame and brewster jennings were lost. like you said… couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch.
chicago tom
Spann died because he was in the wrong place at a very wrong time…Hadley had zip to do w/it.
Professor questions the “official” 9/11 story. Believes the buildings were felled with thermite cutter demolition charges.
QUESTION THE 9/11 STORY. They’ve lied about everything else: global warming, the war, mercury, education, taxes, social security — why would they be truthful about 9/11?
http://www.physics.byu.edu/res...../htm7.html
censure, my ass
the times will bring about much, much more
& with that happy thought - goodnight all
Bush is conforming quite nicely to the “Nixon Trajectory”…impeachment is only a few months away. Sooner if he bombs Iran.
What’s the “Nixon Trajectory”? Well, it’s the path he described as he fell from the pinnacle of power as the “Leader of the Free World” to “I am not a crook”.
I can only imagine where “I am the Decider” will end up.
In jail for crimes against humanity would be a good place for him I think.
Larry: Hadley leaked his name after he died. I’m not saying Hadley killed him. It’s still a crime to leak the name and it caused people to lose their lives and loss of spies, etc.
chicago tom 15:
That is a fascinating story, and a damning one, if true. But like 60 Minutes reportedly did with the uranium story tonight (I didn’t see it), someone needs to vastly simplify it for public consumption.
So much for the “Joe Wilson has been discredited” camp. Can’t wait for Christopher Hitchens’s next rant. Some delusions die hard.
The tourism industry has recorded a 24% increase in the number of visitors arriving in Israel during the month of March 2006, as compared to the same period last year.
At the same time, outgoing tourism has also increased by 8%, with over 204,000 Israelis traveling abroad in March.
==
Also, for anyone who hasn’t heard, 8 American soldiers died in Iraq this weekend.
night 2 all…Thanks for all you do Jane
Actually, there IS a war going on over at CIA. It’s VERY VERY subtle, and has been going on for several years now. Why?
The Company, from IT’S own perspective, took a real HIT from the WH when the WH effectively blamed all its woes on “bad intelligence”. That, and the Plame thing, REALLY pissed off alot of folks over there. They also felt embarrassed, from an international perspective. LOTS of grumbling going on. What to do?
Those “incompetents” (as portrayed by the WH) have been performing a looong hit job. If you go back many, many months….everytime things got kinda “quiet” for the WH….out would come another leak, a report, etc. All of which would whack the WH.
The Company is performing that ole Chinese torture….death by a thousand cuts. Remember: don’t piss off the Company! They got a 101 ways to hit back…and you’ll never see the fist, the knife, or the bullet.
Ghostman
which one? hadley or 9/11? Have you seen all the professors who question the Towers’ collaps?
Jet fuel burns at 900 degrees. Steel melts at 1,500 degrees. Why is there a ton of molten metal at the bottom of the Towers? Why were there “hot spots” that burned hot for days? From jet fuel? Hardly.
Physically, it’s impossible.
“The policy was set,” Drumheller says. “The war in Iraq was coming. And they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy.”
The beauty of this is the WH has no time to prepare. This week’s newscycle lasts till Friday.
ClusterfuckBush can decide all week what he wants on the front page, $3/gallon gas or Drumheller.These kinds of things also make it tougher (not impossible) for him to launch against Iran.
We must realize that the American People are looking at the New and Improved Bush.
The old product was that he was honest, tongue-tied, corn-poney yet swaggering, straight talking man that you wanted to have a beer with.
Now he is the new and improved, shifty, dishonest, double talking, politician who has worn out his welcome because he doesn’t drink so you can’t have a beer with him.
His PR department is trying to roll out a new ad campaign to recast the bad turn in product polls, but they have been trying mighty hard for almost a year now. To no avail.
Also, there are lots of other PR folks that work for the competition and not him, who are telling people not to buy him anymore, he is defective and a big old lemon a breach in the code of truth in advertising.
A few more months and it could be time for a refund.
-GSD
ccow - that’s been around for at least a couple of months, although I don’t know if it is real, and I couldn’t tell you where I first saw it, most likely someones blog.
Ghost: I hope so. I’ve been waiting for the vaunted CIA counterrack for 6 years. If they ever find a pair over there, install them, and do something, I’ll be surprised.
Hungrycoyote 27
“Drumheller was also interviewed twice by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (the Roberts Committee) but apparently only after they released their summer 2004 report.”
No wonder Pat Roberts doesn’t want to release the second phase of the report.
chicago tom-
I watched the whole 9/11 thing with a room full of engineers, and as soon as we saw it they all said, “oh, those buildings are coming down.” They seemed to think a jet fuel fire would be plenty good enough.
chicago tom,
Have you ever heard of a forge?
You’re right the steel didn’t melt. That’s why it took the Towers so long to collapse after the fuel started buring. The steel was bent by the heat AND the structural weight it was designed to bear.
You think this is the backblow of BushCo.’s p.o. the CIA, maybe the FBI and almost every person in the world? The truth demands to be set free, Mr. President, Jr. Where is Poppy Bush, by the way? His sins are still lurking in the backround, eh?
I hereby nominate eRiposte for the Nobel Peace Prize. Seriously.
chicago tom,
Block of salt taken. I’m not buying that Mike Spann was a NOC either.
http://www.honormikespann.org/about.htm
“He led one of our teams into Afghanistan, then under the sway of a dictatorship aligned with global murder,†Tenet said. “There, he tracked the authors and allies of terror. There, while fighting for the future of the American people, he fought to bring a better future to the Afghan people. And it was there, one evening, that he said he would gladly risk his life if he could help make the world a safer place for his wife and children.â€
- George Tenet
CIA Director
Ghostman - I was going for the war entering a new, hotter phase. The CIA was obviously pissed about the outing of Plame and also being blamed for the intelligence “errors/failures.”
Zennurse - It is not Russian. It of American vintage.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/d.....hcommithim
I just searched FReeperland to gage the reaction to Drumheller, and nary a peep. Should come soon, though. Maybe after Rush tomorrow.
Nonsense. The first tower hit was the last to collapse. Most of the fuel burned outside the building.
Read the papers by the engineering professors. Did you look at the photos?
Hell, the building owner of Building 7 ADMITTED the fire dept told him they were “pulling the building down.” This is on a taped media interview. Listen to the tape and open your eyes.
How does steel melt at 900 degrees? Why is there molten metal at the bottom of the building? Steel melts at 1,500 degrees and jet fueld burns at 900 and it wasn’t a forge.
Cia war pitting “wermacht” versus the “ss”: guess which ones are the true believers?
http://www.harpers.org/sb-cia-wehrmacht.html
JH: Shock waves feel like they are starting to ripple out and it’s hard to know how far they are going to extend.
Statements like that give me goosebumps.
But that image of a wounded coyote in the yard is staying with me. The administration is bleeding and cornered. Who will they attack?
GSD-
Bingo. Now he’s Nixon, minus the electoral legitimacy. Shifty-eyed, sweaty, lying Nixon. Minus Nixon’s actual political skills.
Thanks, EPU. I gets me news slow these days. Appreciate your response.
#44…the “counterattack” has been underway for some time now. But it’s very very subtle. Realize….if it all came at once, and/or loudly….the company’s fingerprints would be all over it.
Ghostman
Drumheller, the man who is pictured, is heavily quoted in chapter five of James Risen’s new book.
Death sponsored by denial no more.
If sixty minutes says it then it must be true. I can hear the ripping sounds of more bumper stickers. Hopefully the easy reader approach will have a ripple affect. Hopefully. Please impeach the cayote, he eats his own young.
Looks like James Baker may parachute in to save Shrub Jr.
Seems like old times, Saved by Nero.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0423.html
-GSD
ccow #22 and epu– it looks to be for real…. http://www.soapblox.net/chicag.....aryId=1577
the story is also on the state rep’s home page with text of the resolution she introduced:
http://karenyarbrough.com/KY_2.....042006.htm
highlights…
[snip]
WHEREAS, President Bush has publicly admitted to ordering the National Security Agency to violate provisions of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, a felony, specifically authorizing the Agency to spy on American citizens without warrant; and
WHEREAS, Evidence suggests that President Bush authorized violation of the Torture Convention of the Geneva Conventions, a treaty regarded a supreme law by the United States Constitution; and
WHEREAS, The Bush Administration has held American citizens and citizens of other nations as prisoners of war without charge or trial; and
WHEREAS, Evidence suggests that the Bush Administration has manipulated intelligence for the purpose of initiating a war against the sovereign nation of Iraq, resulting in the deaths of large numbers of Iraqi civilians and causing the United States to incur loss of life, diminished security and billions of dollars in unnecessary expenses; and
WHEREAS, The Bush Administration leaked classified national secrets to further a political agenda, exposing an unknown number of covert U. S. intelligence agents to potential harm and retribution while simultaneously refusing to investigate the matter; and
WHEREAS, the Republican-controlled Congress has decline to fully investigate these charges to date; therefore be it RESOLVED,….
[snip]
has to pass both houses… fingers crossed!
Think Progress has the Drumheller segment and the transcript.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/.....fall-2002/
must sleep.
thanks for lively discussing tonight.
But they would never destroy a building full of people for political gain! Um….. But they would never lie in order to get Congress to agree to go to war against Iraq! Um….. But they would never exaggerate the danger of avian flu right before the ‘06 elections! Um….. But they would never distort the electoral process so much that it would change the outcome of important elections! Um….. But they would never refrain from helping a drowning city in order to reduce the number of those brown people! Um…..
chicago tom- that BYU guy might not be the best link. But, there’s a huge amount of other stuff out there, as I’m sure you know. A while ago a regular FDL commenter posted on his own views, having experienced things first hand in NYC. I am pretty sure I remember who it was, but don’t want to say, as I am not 100% sure. He was clear in his view of it being an inside job. And, as I’ve mentioned before, the “cell phone” part of it was what finally convinced me. Again, I have to be less than my usual googlily self, cuz it’s late and I am preoccupied- but the guy who wrote the book- from Claremont- was asked in an LATimes article about whether he was a “conspiracy theorist”- said something to the effect the “official explanation” is also a conspiracy theory- and went on to elaborate how it didn’t have any more basis in fact than his own speculations/ conclusions.
Chicago Tom - If Janeane Garofalo agrees with you, run with it; she’s an actress after all, so that gives her pronouncements on issues like the physics and chemistry involved in a plane crash extra weight.
A suggestion though: take it to Huffpo. They really like celebrities, celebrity news and celebrity pontification over there; I think you will get a better reception. Just mention Jeneane Garofalo as many times as you can (but not too much, you don’t want to look like a crazy person/stalker type).
chicago tom,
“How does steel melt at 900 degrees?”
Just food for thought. 1) Who controlled 90%+ of the constuction in Manhattan during that time period? 2) Was the construction built to code? 3) Did you watch the Sopranos tonight? I did ; )
The 60 Minutes piece was very well done, but there was one factual error.
They said (in reference to the Niger forgeries) that “it was reported that Saddam bought yellowcake in Africa.” No — it was “Saddam attempted to buy yellowcake” . . .
Both claims are bogus, but CBS should have gotten it right.
one of my absolute favorite parts of the interview was this :
According to Drumheller, CIA Director George Tenet delivered the news about the Iraqi foreign minister at a high-level meeting at the White House, including the president, the vice president and Secretary of State Rice.
The blame laid squarely at the feet of the 3 most powerful thugs. Who else was there? Enquiring minds want to know…
Thanks for the link to Drumheller’s new book. I will look for it. I hope the Bushites do try to smear him with the line that he is just pimping the new book. Might boost sales. First title phrase is snappy, short, hope its an easy read.
You can’t smear dozens of people at once. And we are getting to that point now. Maybe not on one issue, but put them all together, and it will soon be donzens they have to smear. Heck it already is almost a dozen with the six retired generals.
chicago tom–
I’m confused. Did they rush in with the thermite after the planes hit? Was it always wired with thermite, and when the planes hit, it was set off to make the terror planes look worse? Why not just use the thermite? Why use the planes at all?
Was the 93 WTC bombing an inside job, too?
BTW–there are lots of other metals in the building that would melt at ca. 900 degrees. Copper and silver in the wring would melt about then. Tin would melt at less. The solder in the 50,000 computers in the buildings would melt at less.
And if anyone out there picks up on TPM post commenter linked to above, this also puts heat on the abject and blatant lacky Pat Roberts.
Excuses for Democrats to play patsy for this liear and malfeasant are getting short. Somebody needs to ask ol Pat a few questions next time he is on talkshow. I presume FDL will keep us updated.
“If Janeane Garofalo agrees with you, run with it; she’s an actress after all, so that gives her pronouncements on issues like the physics and chemistry involved in a plane crash extra weight.”
LMAO.
ccow - I wondered about whether or not it was true too. So, I did a search and found it also mentioned in an article at The Nation:
TR at #56 — the ‘wounded coyote’ republicans are going to attack anything with a D attached to it between now and November - in every manner possible. They may be so busy they won’t have time to give Lieberman a little ‘friendly’ help. :-)
Angie No. 71
“The blame laid squarely at the feet of the 3 most powerful thugs. Who else was there? Enquiring minds want to know…”
Rove?
Senate Report of Pre-war Intelligence on Iraq
This is the committee who interviewed Drumheller twice - after they issued the report, according to Josh Marshall.
Pat Roberts has been dragging his feet on the second part of the investigation (about the administration’s role in the pre- war intel.
Now we know why!!
Who was in charge of security of the WTC towers? A brother of President Bush. Sure makes me feel confident that I can trust everything that President Bush does. Whew. Good thing that important matters like this are in the hands of people that care about the nation and not advancing the interests of their own family *cough* Carlyle-and now Tony Blair *cough*. Hey, Jeb Bush ‘08? and maybe no elections in ‘08 because of (1) the completely phony avian flu crisis out of which Rumsfeld makes $5,000,000, (2) false flag/black ops attacks on Iran and they finally respond so we must GO TO WAR and ya know cancel the ‘08 elections so PERMANENT BUSH PRESIDENCY. Think about it. Bush ‘12 then. We love their leadership. Embrace the inevitable. We are F**KED so relax and enjoy it. [?]
new bumpersticker:
Don’t blame me, I’m not the decider
……
thanks for all you do…Jane, Christy, Taylor, Pach, Pam, et al ….
and the many wonderful blog-folk who make this lovely community…
RE: Drumheller
There is the part about implicating the investigations as being part of the same scam the foisted the war.
And it almost seems there is something else. He was the head of the DO for Europe. That will sink in with many people and cause ripples. But is going on the record and has just shot across the bow of the administration. He knows exactly what he is doing. There was a “I dare you to come after me” aspect to this.
chicago tom: maybe you haven’t gotten the word but FDL is part of the reality-based community.
i don’t know about the other folks here tonight but i think you need to become a Fitz disciple and be more careful and disciplined about the accusations you make. We can do just fine sticking to the easily provable, salient matters in the public discourse. the Twin Towers fell because of the paper burning.
the Bush Administration has clearly demonstrated one thing: it’s INCOMPETENCY. it is completely laughable that it would have been capapable of pulling off the sabotage that you envision in your fevered brain.
take your meds and go to your room.
9/11 Security Courtesy of Marvin Bush
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911security.html
neurophius #78– my guess is yesss. Was rummy there, colin?
Pat Roberts may needs some extra strength memory pills…soon.
wespac at #74 said Excuses for Democrats to play patsy for this liear and malfeasant are getting short. Somebody needs to ask ol Pat a few questions next time he is on talkshow….
I would like to see an in depth interview by Christy with Lee Hamilton. Wasn’t he on one of these committees who agreed to some of the ‘conditions’ for that panel?
maggie s., great catch imo.
#63 saw that story and tomorrow I am calling my reps and hope they support Rep. Yarbrough. Two are Ds.
From the report linked above - this was an additional view by Rockefeller, Levin and Durbin:
Senators Rockefeller, Levin, and Durbin
Senators John D. Rockefeller (D-WV) (the Committee’s vice-chairman), Carl Levin (D-MI), and Richard Durbin (D-IL), used their additional view to say that the report painted an incomplete picture, because the Committee had put off until phase two of the investigation the key question of “how intelligence on Iraq was used or misused by Administration officials in public statements and reports.” Because of this, they said, “the Committee’s phase one report fails to fully explain the environment of intense pressure in which Intelligence Community officials were asked to render judgments on matters relating to Iraq when policy officials had already forcefully stated their own conclusions in public.”
We should call Rockefeller, Levin and Durbin’s offices tomorrow and express our support for a complete investigation and report of “phase two” -ASAP!
Angie 85
Maybe the whole evil rotten crew was there. Hadley, Libby, Addington…
Does anyone know when his book is coming out, or if it is out, has anyone looked at it?
The stuff Chicago Tom is talking about is all covered in a documentary. Just go to Google and search for “Loose Change.” There is a blog at the site for conversation about it.
Impeachment could save a lot of Republican votes this fall.
I do not believe that WTC was brought down by inside job. I also think that if it was, confronting such a horrific conspiracy head on in a way that will close minds and turn potential allies away is not the best way to find the truth. There are hard facts that lead up more promising avenues to break the logjam power of BushCo (with emphasis on “Co” since Bush and many in family are tools). If any truth to some of the really ghastly conspiracy theories, it won’t come out until power of BushCo is broken. So, folks who believe have the right to say so. I am not interested until there is better chance to get better evidence.
“Is The Country Catching On?”
No, we are being amnipulated. Will the Patriot Act and all the other incusions into our rights and liberties be rolled by to pre-bush era rights? No, they won’t.
You are being entertained by GW’s public humiliation but please don’t look too closely. You will never get your rights back that were lost to Bush
“Who was in charge of security of the WTC towers?”
“The official, John O’Neill, 49, former special agent in charge of national security in the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s New York office”
edited (former)
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08.....mp;ei=5070
fahrender,
“i don’t know about the other folks here tonight but i think you need to become a Fitz disciple and be more careful and disciplined about the accusations you make. We can do just fine sticking to the easily provable, salient matters in the public discourse. the Twin Towers fell because of the paper burning.
the Bush Administration has clearly demonstrated one thing: it’s INCOMPETENCY. it is completely laughable that it would have been capapable of pulling off the sabotage”
Bingo
One more comment — re the ‘unreal’ idea that 9/11 was an inside job. I am not a scientist, an engineer, and know nothing about the technical aspects.
But I know this — Bush is a liar. I cannot trust anything, any report, any comment coming out of this administration. And the “it can’t happen here’ is what was said not that long ago about rigging/stealing votes via the voting machines. Certainly after 2004 election, there were huge fights at DKos because the frontpagers wouuldn’t even write about accusations, many now proved, of vote rigging, stealing, etc.
Nothing is totally beyond believing for this bunch. I just keep my mind open. Reality on the towers subject is still be written. IMO
egregious - wedding?
Ghostman - I hope you are correct, bc CIA has, in addition to the cavers who gave Tenet/Bush whatever they wanted, some of the smartest and the toughest and they have not only been made to look like idiots and incompetents — Rummy is ready to read them right out of the story.
To balance Karma for them, the ice underwear story would need to be true too, and it would need to be a condition that mysteriously occured when he made it clear he thought he had the balls to take CIA out with a smile on his face. ;-)
Prior thread - GOre can be more of a kingmaker if he doesn’t run. I’m all in Feingold’s camp, but I can see any combo coming from Gore, Feingold, Clark and/or Edwards might be a winner. I think Gore going with his gut and not advisors like Carville is why he sounds so much better; so much stronger.
Civil unions. I’m all in favor of them. I like them so much, I think EVERYONE should have them. ;-)
IMO, that is all GOVERNMENT should be concerned about - unions that give rise to legal consequences, and all those should be treated, legally, the same. Male, female, combos and colors. “Marriage” is a religous matter and IMO, should be left to the various churches. So I think whether or not you get “married” is a matter of religion, whether you have a relationship that gives rise to legal consequences is a governmental matter and that should be, for everyone, a “civil union.”
chicago tom, hungrywolf,wesgpg 93:
The 9/11 conspiracy theory is intriguing, but until a special prosecutor is assigned to look into it, I am not going to hold my breath. And if this administration really were behind it in any way, I believe they would declare martial law rather than allow it to be investigated. In any event, I guess I’m just not ready to believe that they are THAT evil.
chicago tom –
Steel doesn’t have to melt in order for it to fail. The fire from the jet fuel burned out in five or ten minutes, but the force of the impact blasted the content of the towers to one side, and ignited it. It was this fire that led to the structural failure.
Both PBS and one of the cable channels did programs on the failure of the towers. The weak point in the structural design was the connecting point between the floor joists and the vertical columns. One end had 5/8″ bolts, the other had 3/4″. The heat of the fire caused the floor joists to sag, which caused the undersized bolts to fail. The vertical columns depended on the floor joists for lateral stability — and when they went, the columns blew out.
The tower that was hit last failed first for two reasons — mainly, the plane hit lower in the tower, so there was more weight above the damaged section; the damage was also more off center — when it fell, the upper tower started to tip just before it collapsed.
On Nova, the engineer that designed them said that he knew they were coming down from the moment they were hit — they were not engineered to take that.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/
On the cable channel (Discovery? History?) they reported that the fireproofing on the structural steel was substandard. It had been replaced up to the 50th floor or so, but the upper floors were essentially unprotected.
Here’s the deal — without fireproofing, ANY piece of structural steel will fail, when exposed to fire. Wood is more structurally fire resistant than steel.
Now — did something weird happen with WTC 7? Maybe; maybe not.
Did the Bush administration ignore the warnings of a pending attack? Absolutely.
Did BushCo cover up the truth after the fact? Absolutely.
But asserting that ‘bombs were planted because the steel didn’t melt’ is seriously unproductive tinfoil territory. The Utah professor is not very helpful either.
OT - Something I found a bit ironic is that Bush recently declared “I’m the decider.” But is that really true?
James Risen, State of War, chapter six - “Losing Afghanistan,” page 161:
What was that Mr. Bush?
Mary,
“IMO, that is all GOVERNMENT should be concerned about - unions that give rise to legal consequences, and all those should be treated, legally, the same. Male, female, combos and colors. “Marriage†is a religous matter and IMO, should be left to the various churches. So I think whether or not you get “married†is a matter of religion, whether you have a relationship that gives rise to legal consequences is a governmental matter and that should be, for everyone, a “civil union.â€
Agree, and I think most people would also.
I don’t think 9/11 was an inside job. I also don’t think the moon landings were faked. Also, I don’t care who marries whom.
neurophius — I was just saying there is a place to talk about that theory. I’m more interested in discussing tonight’s 60 Minutes report and related matters.
chicago tom @ 9:07 pm (#54) - You’re the one talking nonsense. None of the studies you’re referring to are by civil or structural engineers. Most talk about the “molten steel” strawman as though it means something, which, quite frankly, tells me these guys don’t know the first thing about building contruction, let alone building demolition. John Casper is right about how the structural steel failed. It didn’t melt. No serious report on the WTC collapse say that it did. Steel softens long before it melts. If that wasn’t true, steel wouldn’t be anywhere near as useful as it was in the Iron Age.
Read the real reports. They’re out there. Do a search for my Internet handle in this domain and at haloscan.com with keywords like “forge”, “deform”, and “steel” and “WTC”. I’ve listed them several times, and at least once in each domain.
This stuff is patent nonsense that is perpetuated by people who take their mental abilities far too seriously to actually check the facts. They are in the same mental class as people who believe in alien abductions, the Bermuda Triangle, and crystal science.
This week’s newscycle lasts till Friday. Clusterfuck Bush can decide all week what he wants on the front page, $3/gallon gas or Drumheller.
Well, Bush is the Big Decider.
hungrycoyote 103: agreed.
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