Pach!

Fitz!
now off to read the post.

O.K. I’m in,this is far to important to’foot drag’ on.

So far we have 3 of us going to a Kerry event on Sat. at Fanuil Hall in Boston. Anyone else interested? Let Pach know and get in the group, we’ll update you.

The more the merrier.

Everyone really needs to read Billmon’s latest post “The Flight Forward”. In it, he details his reasons for believing that:

“What we are witnessing (through rips in the curtain of official secrecy) may be an example of what the Germans call the flucht nach vorne – the “flight forward.” This refers to ta situation in which an individual or institution seeks a way out of a crisis by becoming ever more daring and aggressive (or, as the White House propaganda department might put it: “bold”) A familar analogy is the gambler in Vegas, who tries to get out of a hole by doubling down on each successive bet.

Classic historical examples of the flucht nach vornes include Napoleon’s attempt to break the long stalemate with Britain by invading Russia,the decision of the Deep South slaveholding states to secede from the Union after Lincoln’s election, and Milosevic’s bid to create a “greater Serbia” after Yugoslavia fell apart.”

We really need to act now.

To strike Iran with nukulur weapons would give any other nuclear nation the go-ahead to use their nukulur arsenals on their enemies. Not to mention start world war 3 and destroy the environment.

One good sign: Dianne Feinstein is telling Bush that his inflammatory rhetoric isn’t helping matters any.

Oh, and if you need to argue the point with the bedwetters, here are some handy facts: Even Anthony Cordesman (who as a former military advisor to John McCain, is not exactly a liberal) says that Iran can’t do diddly as far as nuclear weapons are concerned.
In fact, while Iran’s president is currently trading asinine chest-thumping statements with Bush, the reality is that he’s a figurehead — the real power in Iran is held by mullahs like Khameinei, and they’re all against nuclear weapons as contrary to Islam.

Oh, RevDeb, I wish I could go, but I work every weekend. If I have hot responded to an email from you, everyone else in MA and Pacha, that is also the reason.

Damn.

What surprises me most is how this has managed to come to pass. We supposedly live in a democracy where major decisions are made with the consent of the people through their elected representatives. Yet we are looking at an unprovoked action that has no basis in law, is a war crime if carried out, and self-destructive to the United States. And we are reduced to writing letters to our representatives. I’m not saying we shouldn’t, but standing back, isn’t it amazing that things have come to such a pass, that we are now effectively a dictatorship?

I feared for this day when the Supreme Court short-circuited the election in December 2000, but I couldn’t let myself dwell on it because it seemed so fantastic. And here we are.

It may take a military coup to save us from ourselves.

Pach, beware the trap: It isn’t just starting a nuclear war against Iran that’s seriously nuts. A conventional “preventive” attack is only marginally less crazy.

I believe the nuclear option is being floated not because the Bushies are all that serious about exercising it but to give themselves something to step back from.

By pressuring Democrats to speak out specifically against a nuclear attack, one gives them cover for failing to oppose a conventional attack. Democrats will claim credit for a no-brainer while taking a pass on actual courage.

Consider the precedent: in October 2002, mainstream Democrats huffed and puffed about how responsible they were in blocking some of the Republicans’ more rabidly insane language from the Iraq war resolution…but then they lined up like sheep and voted for the final, less rabid, but still insane, act.

Zen,
We’ll bring your spirit with!

thanks Pach; i’m in…hope someone else does the talking though!

Quickie thing you can do:

Vote against Rumsfeld at polls like this one at US News:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/p.....sphome.htm

Polls, being leading indicators, are in many ways more influential than actual votes. It is of the utmost importance that the generals have both hard and soft data supporting them in order to get the Bush Administration to stand down from attacking Iraq. Getting Rumsfeld’s resignation is as good as getting Cheney’s. So far 82% of respondents asking for Rumsfeld resignation.

You might be interested in this article from Pravda on the topic:

Pravda on the US attacking Iran: It’s the Oil, Stupid

Slightly OT but I’ve asked my Canadian Parliament rep to ask the minority gov’t prime minister to state my country’s position on supporting the bush admin’s pre-emptive nuclear war position. I’m not holding my breath but I’ve asked many fellow Canadians to do the same.

noen,

yes, BushCo is doing the classic double-down on the next hand because they lost this one. They must be made to walk or crawl away from the table before they kill us all.

There is too much danger with Bush approval heading for the low 30’s to not do this. They will strike and then claim he has the power and the need and “which one a’ ya yella’bellied Dems are gonna’ stop me?”
I’m in. And then to take it further into every single Democratic congress person and candidate. Thanks Pach.

Little did we know how true the statement “the proof could come in the form of a mushroom cloud” could turn out to be. Or that we would be the rogue nation.

Oklahoma kiddo says:

April 17th, 2006 at 1:28 pm
The conceit of executive fiat in the Bush administration goes almost beyond comprehension. This government is dictatorial, if not fascist in nature. The Congress has abdicated oversight and the vacuum has been filled with dogmatic fixations. The Bush gansters, with the complicity of the Congress, the Supreme Court, big business, the MSM, unforgivable military aquiescence and many DINOS have quashed Democracy and vibrant discussion. Diverse points of view are simply not permitted.

The attack on Iraq was blind rage at Bush’s impotence and dispair at his inability to effectively deal with Osama Bin Laden subsequent to 9/11. What we now have with Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rice, Rumsfeld and the like is a culture of self-defeating irrationality. I find it ironic that the way the U.S. is trying to pressure Tehran to cease it’s nuclear ambitions is by making threats against Iran which are nuclear explicit. Did I say ‘ironic’? Perhaps what I really mean is evil, sinful, and wickedly hypocritical.

Seems to me that we are just turning up the heat of the Iraq cauldron by daring Iran to cross us in our obesessive pre-occupation with ordering them to relinquish their sovereignty. This boiling point in the Bush kettle very well may to lead to thermo-nuclear world conflict. Bush is a madman, and his Capone like mob must be crushed.

thanks, moeman.

There is no chance that we will do a nuclear strike. The military simply won’t allow it to happen. They’re not that nuts. I agree with the notion that this just makes the convential option look less bad.

thank you again MarcLord

I voted against Rummy in the meaningless poll. But, maybe Bush pays attention only to the things science says is meaningless…like an unscientific poll!

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/p.....sphome.htm

It is so sad for me to say this, but I do believe thay are that nuts, Mitch. I understand that it appears outrageous that it would ever be considered it but against the advice of the military they now refuse to remove it from the group of options available. This president is also a religious zealot when it suits his purposes and we have seen in abundant situations, he does not back down from his decisions or admit to error; he is a megalomaniac who sees “spreading democracy” as his mission directly from god. He believes that the way to do this is with guns and Armageddon-like displays of force. I think George Bush would love to be the leader who defied the world by using anything nuclear for the first time in 60 years to prove that he is the most powerful man in the world and to bring about what he sees is his messianic mission for the world.
I don’t claim to understand it at all, but that is what I can see from reading and digesting far more than just the Hersh article. Read the link to Pravda above. It’s a story of Oil and Ego.

I honestly don’t understand what you moonbats are all upset about. Bush ain’t gonna nuke Iran and even if he did, it would be with little-bitty ol’ tactical nukes. You know, it’ll be nothing worse than a love tap. They’ll hardly notice it.

And when it’s all over, they’ll welcome their new Republican overlords with sweets and flowers and they’ll be so grateful they’ll charge us $10 a barrel for oil.

I preemptively apologize for implying in item 9 that all of Pach’s talk points address only the nuclear attack question.

Still I think the nuke insanity issue shouldn’t get top billing. My own talk points:

1. “Preventive” war on Iraq was insane.

2. “Preventive” war on Iran would be insane on steroids.
3. Nuclear “preventive” war on Iran would be insane on steroids, plus methamphetamines.

We also might want to take a look at these, save them in bookmarks. Sorry, but necessary disaster preparedness lists.

http://www.fema.gov/hazard/index.shtm

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fdsk.pdf

I’ll tell you how to get the majority of Americans on board with the realization that this president is going to be the ruin of this nation and possibly the world

this president is a “dispensationalist”…he is actually trying to usher the battle of Armageddon in the belief that that will bring heaven to earth in the after math for believers in Christianity

sad to say, the very principle was established in the 1800’s and has always been a nut case point of view

in any event, one of you super bloggers needs to create the momentum that you are so able to do and get this information as part of the very dialog when talking about this president and the puppeteers that control this marionette

In line with the last thread about Democratic election strategy, the US News site posted above with the Rummy poll has an brief about GOP prospects for the midterms. Included is this:
“Top aides and strategists say that while the Republicans could lose a handful of House and Senate seats, they should remain in the majority. “It’s a bit scary, but we don’t think we’ll lose control,” says one strategist. Another says that in House races, most members should win re-election based on local issues and projects the lawmakers can cite for which they brought home federal funding. “Those aren’t national elections this year,” says the Republican political adviser, adding that the Democrats so far have failed to make the midterms a national election like Republicans did in 1994.”
“The Democrats so far have failed to make the miderms a national election.” Damn. And why not? Too busy jockying around for position for the presidential race? Too afraid of the Big Bad Media? Afraid of being branded a weak-on-defense lib? We’ve got to force our ‘leaders’ to lead!
Well…I could be more positive and trust that the “advisers and strategists” haven’t felt the full benefit of Dean’s 50-state strategy. I hope.

OT
I just want to get this over here, so our right wing watchers can see it. Malkin posts protestors phone numbers on her blog and then they get death threats. She is just unbelievable.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/.....html#a7943

Errrr……sure, meet with your Congress-people, email them, fax ‘em, call them up, sign petitions….whatever. But do something WAY more important than that: get out on the fucking street! Start building barricades, digging trenches, don your tear-gas kerchief and heavy boots because these clowns need to see that we won’t accept nuking a country for no real reason, need to see that they aren’t gonna roll us again, need to see that if they pull this bullshit, their “empire” is going to fracture into a couple of thousand pieces! Look, it might mean changing the American lifestyle but….we can live with less oil. What we can’t live with is the murder of millions (ultimately, that’s what it boils down to) so that we can continue driving Hummers to the 7-11 for a quart of milk. It won’t just be radiation circling the planet, it’ll be the ashes of our victims that we’ll be forced to breathe for the rest of our worthless lives and we’ll be covered with a shame that will NEVER wash away!

Get out in the goddamned streets right now! Turn off your computer, call up your friends (and tell them to call their friends) and flash-mob in the middle of traffic, today, right now. You don’t have to wait for someone on the far Left to get the permits for a peace march and the soundsystem for celebs to speak through, just get off of your ass right now and let the world know that you aren’t going to be mute and passive when it comes to an infantile dry-drunk getting his rocks off by setting off the ultimate penis-stand in!

Personally, I’m not gonna waste anymore time talking about this…the guy you see out there waving a flaming torch tonight? That’ll be me.

zennurse– that is why she is in favor of internment camps and racial profiling– she is operating just like bushco (Rove), the nsa and the dod.
she will never have to worry about being a target as long as the rethugs are in power. she is a nasty woman who will one day have to ‘grow up and take responsibility’ for her actions.

Zennurse, when I said that they are not that nuts, I was referring to the military, not the Bushies. I agree, Bush et al are completely crazy. I just can’t believe that the military will drop nuclear weapons anywhere at this point in time, and that they would take down Bush if he ordered them to do so.

Maybe I’m the one who is nuts.

“There is no chance that we will do a nuclear strike. The military simply won’t allow it to happen. They’re not that nuts.”

I really hope they aren’t that nuts. One possible way this might all fallout is that GW gives the order to use tactical nukes and the joint cheifs all resign in protest and call for GW to be replaced. It just might play out that way. But I really hate being reduced to crossing my fingers and hoping the nutcase in chief doesn’t push the button.

And according to some, we are already at war and have our people in Iran right now… today. Navy seal squads and other such forces are working with MEK and otherwise aquiring targets for the next phase.

It ain’t no joke, I truly believe that we are at war right now with Iran. Read what Billmon has to say about it. This time, GW isn’t going to ask permission to go in, he believes he already has it. Those unitary powers sure help out huh?

God help us.

It should be noted that the Bush diplomatic effort is simply for public relations effect and not because he would ever negotiate in any form other than a take it or leave it ultimatum. The schedule for moving from a diplomatic effort to a military strike is determined more by Bush’s assessment of whether his Rubber Stamp Republican controlled congress will survive the election than the rate of any advancement Iran makes in developing nuclear weapons. If he believes the Democrats will take over, watch out, he will act preemptively, and sooner rather than later.

Malkin is way over the top.Funny how she into others taking responsibility,where’s her own.And don’t terroristic threats carry a penalty?

Everyone

If you gave Neon #5 a passing glance, go back and reread her/his post. It is very important that we understand the psychology of the enemy.

Then follow Zennurse’s advise by going to FEMA.

We are all thinking the same thing, but no one is ready to state the actual fear that is out there. It is not paranoia if it is the truth. We are still in probability space on this one, but we all feel the realization of Schroedinger’s Cat. I hope we can keep it in the box. Bush wants to take it out of the box and reanimate it in some type of skull-and-bones/Frankenjesusstein ritual.

Hold on tight…

Slightly OT:

I just called Feinstein’s office to thank her for her strong statement on Iran and to let her know that I would be contacting my other representatives to urge their support. I followed up with a call to Boxer’s office.

I would urge others to call/fax/email.

zennurse, thanks for puttng up the C&L link that I got EPU’d on the last thread with. Malkin and her ilk are past certifiable!

I love the visit-your-representative idea. That could really have some impact.

I think the talking points could use some work; they’re more likely to appeal to the already converted (IMO) than to the people we need to reach.

I have a roundup of some other Just Say No talking points and strategies here. Any suggestions are welcome.

Petition to oust Rusfeld by Memorial Day here. Text:

At least four retired U.S. generals have called for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign, believing that the chief architect of the Iraq war and subsequent American occupation should be held accountable for the chaos there.

The high-ranking officers have accused Rumsfeld of arrogance and ignoring his field commanders.

Three years after the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq, 2,368 U.S. soldiers, 207 coalition soldiers, and tens of thousands of Iraqis have been killed.

Just halfway through April 2006, more U.S. service personnel in Iraq have died than in all of March.

For the sake of the troops serving in Iraq, and those that will be called to serve; for the sake of the families who have lost their loved ones, and of those that have been killed and maimed, civilian and soldier alike; for the American and Iraqi people, who want the killing to end:

Donald Rumsfeld must resign, or be fired, by Memorial Day 2006.

President Bush still supports Secretary Rumsfeld, and must be shown that it is unacceptable and unreasonable for this man, who joked with reporters about the killing of prisoners, who is responsible for both the general chaos of Iraq and the specific atrocities like Abu Ghraib, to continue another month in his job.

Donald Rumsfeld must resign, or be fired, by Memorial Day 2006.

Following is a post from a friend of mine who was at Camp Casey over the Easter weekend.

I’m hoping the links work, bc the pics are great. She, and a few others that received this from her, have mentioned the same thing we have heard here: It’s time for that march on Washington.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well, I’m exhausted and it was the very best Easter I’ve had in my life.
The few reports in the media estimate that we had 50 people at camp.
Bullfuckingshit.
On Saturday, we had at least 500 plus come through the food line.
However, that’s not really important .
We know we were there. ;)

Once again, I’m struggling for the words to describe CCII and Peace House.
I wish I could some convey the great love that I felt.
We were not there to bash the President or condemn those that do not share
our beliefs.
We were there to lend our support to all the families that have lost their
sons and daughters, wives and husbands, brothers and sisters to this
unconscionable war.
We were there to reaffirm the spirit of justice in America.

What we did:
After last August, a county ordinance was passed to deny the right of the
people to lawfully stand by the side of the road and petition their
government for redress.
At Thanksgiving, 12 folks decide to challenge that ordinance by getting
arrested.
However, realizing that they had a potential constitutional firestorm ahead
of them, the local D.A. has failed to bring the issue to court.
Being the intractable lot that we are, and in defense of the First
Amendment, 14 other people deliberately got arrested again on
Thursday-including Daniel Ellesburg.

On Friday, we walked the stations of the cross between CCI and CCII and held
workshops on activism.

On Saturday, more workshops and truly inspirational group of speakers
including Daniel Ellesburg and Rev. Joseph Lowry and Rev. Peter Johnston
and Diane Wilson.
Rev. Joseph Lowry is 84 and co-founded the civil rights movement with Dr.
Martin Luther King.
Rev. Peter Johnston was the youngest member of Dr. King’s staff.
Diane Wilson is an environmentalist and shrimper who challenged the dumping
of toxic chemicals off the Texas coast.
And of course, we heard from both the returning Iraq vets and the Goldstar
Families for Peace.

Sunday, Eliza Gilkyson dropped by to play music for us and donated the
proceeds from CD sales to Peace House.
Rev. Joseph Lowry conducted the sunrise service and we broke camp which is
always the hardest part for me because we gather around the crosses, taps is
played and then with the greatest reverence, we collect the crosses and
handed them to Bill Mitchell.
Bill’s son was killed in in Sadr City .
It is impossible not to weep as you collect the crosses-especially if you
know the names and the families. It’s not just a blip in the media
anymore-it’s real.

The people:
Where to start? The energy, the spirit of volunteerism, the dedication to
the rights of all Americans.
I could type for hours and never capture the magic. Whenever we needed
help-it appeared.
Our efforts in the kitchen were recognized at each meal and we received
rousing applause.
Everyone thanked us profusely when they saw us.
For me, the highlight of the week was feeding Daniel Ellesburg late Saturday
in the kitchen and having him explain foreign policy between bites of pasta
salad.
It was wonderful!

If you’d like to see pictures, this link will take you to a slide show.
http://ptmccleese.smugmug.com/gallery/1365008
If you’d like to hear some truly wonderful speeches and you are not on
dial-up, this link includes speeches by Rev. Lowry.
http://www.truthout.org/multimedia.htm
Please listen to the words of Lowry,Geoffrey Millard,Charlie Anderson and
Mona Parsons and Tamara Rosenleaf if you can.
Whatever you believe, these people have earned the right to be heard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

“There is no chance that we will do a nuclear strike. The military simply won’t allow it to happen. They’re not that nuts.‑

the people that say no will be discharged, the president has war powers and he is in fact commander in chief of the military

all the president needs is one loyal pilot, that’s it…a few on the wing, with our military capability there is nothing that can physically stop him if he wants to bring about armageddon, nobody knowing what they are about to armagddon

this is left to congress, they have to be shown the road that we are led and they have to do their sworn duty

I happen to believe we can win a majority for these elections, but two things;

frst, by then it will probably be two late

but more important, it is VERY easy for this administration to change the electronic votes, to keep out the voters that are likely to vote republicans out of office, and it is not likely we will be having legitimate elections

so it’s left to the republicans that are in office now, they will have to regain their patriotism otherwise I believe we are lost

Vote against Rumsfeld at polls like this one at US News:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/p.....sphome.htm

Should Donald Rumsfeld resign as defense secretary?
• Yes 83%
• No 17%

Hot sites of the week

Recommendations from Paul Bedard, editor and chief reporter of Washington Whispers.

www.bringthemhomenow.org/
Want to bring the troops home? Click this site

Marksb, the source you are citing is a ‘Republican political advisor’. I don’t think that things are as hunky-dory for the Repubs as he’s saying. I bet even he doesn’t believe what he’s saying, but hopes that it will discourage anyone who is hoping for change.
I was told by a friend with vast knowledge of animals that a cat will sometimes purr to comfort itself in times of distress. I think that the Republican leadership may be trying that too. I think we’re in better shape than they are willing to admit. Keep pushing!

To all Iranians: a stranger is a gift from God and possibly the “next prophet” whether male or female. THAT is why they will kill their one little goat, their only source of food (dairy) to feed YOU a stranger.

I am sorry this post is large but here goes:

Only weeks after the American hostages were released in Tehran and sent back to the US…I went to live in Iran for nine incredible years. (most of my years spent with a south Persian tribe of beautiful sweet (no politics/religion) people.)

The ONLY time, as an American, that I was hassled or “threatened” was my being in the wrong place at the wrong time near the Tehran bazaar during the Iran/Iraq war. An incredible sight of a Sufi Master in white robes and beard sitting on white marble steps of a large bank juxtaposed with a brightly colored many layer dressed tribal Qashaqi woman inspired me to take a photo.

As I was standing and focusing the lens “went black” …when I lowered my camera I was surrounded by machine guns inches from my face. I hadn’t paid attention to the machine gun armed men lingering in the area. You get used to that daily visual.

Turns out I was standing next door to a “secret” office of Iraqi officers that had defected from Iraq and were helping the Iranian government during the Iraq/Iran war. (I did not learn who they were until days later) After hours and hours of interrogation I saw the Mujahadeen black Range Rovers pull up under the window and the black veiled gun toting women who were there to take me to Evin prison…..I made no bones about being an American woman and figured if it was my day to die I would scream it from the roof tops.

Needless to say, I was released on the spot after they determined I was not CIA … simply by having long conversations. The key statement that “freed” me — after I spotted my ride to prison arriving — was when I was ranting and had stated “The Revolution was supposed to FREE THE PEOPLE….is this RUSSIA or is this FREEDOM?”

A few phone calls and whispers among officers and I was escorted out the door with apologies.

Later that evening an entire feast of Iraqi cooked foods were delivered to our Tehran apartment, bouquets of flowers and a written apology restating their mistake in my detention….that requested that I speak well of them when I return to the USA. Scary irrational enemy?

Even though there is ancient animosity between both Iran and Iraq (WATER is survival), along with the fact they are not related culturally, language or even religion they will work together when it comes to “human” issues. People recognize their governments’policies are “not the people” and will join up for a common cause.

Our White House has NO CLUE who they are dealing with and refuses to even acknowlege the human element involved. Bush was “stunned” when he found out there were different sects of Islam…genius in the White House.

Both nations populations are TRIBAL with very ancient codes that will sacrifice their own lives to protect what little they have for their young.
Not a virtue modern Americans are familiar with.

If the Iranians are “blown off the globe” as our neocons hope . .they will have NOTHING to lose in attacking us.

Since there is such a behind the curtin push to “depopulate our planet” doesn’t it seem obvious our FREAK OF NATURE administration is DELIBERATELY ANTAGONZING THE NATIONS INTO NUCLEAR WAR?

Only weeks after the American hostages were released in Tehran and sent back to the US…I went to live in Iran for nine incredible years. (most of my years spent with a south Persian tribe of beautiful sweet (no politics/religion) people.)

The ONLY time, as an American, that I was hassled or “threatened” was my being in the wrong place at the wrong time near the Tehran bazaar during the Iran/Iraq war. An incredible sight of a Sufi Master in white robes and beard sitting on white marble steps of a large bank juxtaposed with a brightly colored many layer dressed tribal Qashaqi woman inspired me to take a photo.

As I was standing and focusing the lens “went black” …when I lowered my camera I was surrounded by machine guns inches from my face. I hadn’t paid attention to the machine gun armed men lingering in the area. You get used to that daily visual.

Turns out I was standing next door to a “secret” office of Iraqi officers that had defected from Iraq and were helping the Iranian government during the Iraq/Iran war. (I did not learn who they were until days later) After hours and hours of interrogation I saw the Mujahadeen black Range Rovers pull up under the window and the black veiled gun toting women who were there to take me to Evin prison…..I made no bones about being an American woman and figured if it was my day to die I would scream it from the roof tops.

Needless to say, I was released on the spot after they determined I was not CIA … simply by having long conversations. The key statement that “freed” me — after I spotted my ride to prison arriving — was when I was ranting and had stated “The Revolution was supposed to FREE THE PEOPLE….is this RUSSIA or is this FREEDOM?”

A few phone calls and whispers among officers and I was escorted out the door with apologies.

Later that evening an entire feast of Iraqi cooked foods were delivered to our Tehran apartment, bouquets of flowers and a written apology restating their mistake in my detention….that requested that I speak well of them when I return to the USA. Scary irrational enemy?

Even though there is ancient animosity between both Iran and Iraq (WATER is survival), along with the fact they are not related culturally, language or even religion they will work together when it comes to “human” issues. People recognize their governments’policies are “not the people” and will join up for a common cause.

Our White House has NO CLUE who they are dealing with and refuses to even acknowlege the human element involved. Bush was “stunned” when he found out there were different sects of Islam…genius in the White House.

Both nations populations are TRIBAL with very ancient codes that will sacrifice their own lives to protect what little they have for their young.

Not a virtue modern Americans are familiar with.

If the Iranians are “blown off the globe” as our neocons hope . .they will have NOTHING to lose in attacking us.

OT, but important I think.
Time magazine attempts to smear Illinois Dems with corruption and hide GOP corruption conviction. I think some one needs to Howell Time on this. Is this dog too big for FDL to do alone? In any case, Something Ought To Be Done, IMHO. FDL and a few other blogs? 2×4, meet mule time? (that’s a getting-a-mule’s-attention joke, not serious suggestion for mule managment, even after they bite).

here is link to post:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....008237.php

If you have a blog:

PLEASE add Pach’s link to the Roots Project in your sidebars.

Make a new category section, make a graphic, make a permanent link, or just make a post about it, but please help spread the word somehow. We must get our groups formed in all 50 states to get us connected for action.

mitch and zennurse (21,32):

it is up to us to stop bush from starting anymore wars - not the military.

i prefer to have our constitutional crisis NOT involve the armed forces!… however, compared to nuking iran - ack… i do hope our military would stand down. it might be very hard for them to do so - especially if it looks like americans support it.

my nightmare is that we attack iran with conventional weapons… they retaliate against us - and americans go crazy again (just like on 9/12/01). under those circumstances bush might have a lot of support for using nukes.

I’ll be at the Kerry meeting Saturday.

I’ve dumped my own summary of Iran technical points onto a little nuclear-primer blog. Feel free to take anything that is useful to you in talking or visiting reps. Comments (especially from anyone who’s ever dealt with moly :) ) more than welcome.

Nuclear Mangos

my nightmare is that we attack Iran with conventional weapons… they retaliate against us - and Americans go crazy again (just like on 9/12/01). under those circumstances bush might have a lot of support for using nukes.

that’s the plan…just like the administration tried it’s best to goad Saddam into attacking our aircraft, that’s the way this administration will get Americans on board to their next war.

as far as “conventional weapons”…sorry, this is not an option for us anymore, our military ability has been squandered and weakened to the point that we don’t have any conventional options, we are left only with the nuclear option if we are to be led again to yet another front of war

Link didn’t work, just click my username…

BTW, Mitch, the best-case scenario you present leaves our military-civilian relationship utterly broken. It’s been one of the good things about this country so it’s worth trying to make sure this order is just never given.

I agree with commenters that we should make clear we are against a conventional attack at this time as well as nuclear. The message should be that Congress makes it clear that no military action, conventional or nuclear, airstrike or ground, or both is acceptable without full Congressional debate and authorization, separate from what we have now. It is aboslutely unacceptable to allow BushCo to box in opponents with saying “OK, no nukes, that means you think conventional weapons are fine.” or sliding this is in with current authorization. I think this all falls under Pach’s firs point wrt End of Our Govt. As We Know It.

On topic

Fourth in a series

Cassandra’s Nightmare

Who would have guessed that in the year 2006 an American would be reading Pravda for a cogent analysis of world events.

-GSD

“There is no chance that we will do a nuclear strike. The military simply won’t allow it to happen. They’re not that nuts.â€â€˜

They have stood for a lot. Look at Mora’s story - at the end, a table full of people all against the torture practices, wanting to return to the UCMJ fold, and Haynes/Cambone overrule and override them all.

Haynes then gets nominated to the Circuit Court. (Thank God in all incarnations for Leahy)

It seems they’ve whittled down to where they ahve people like Franks (50,000 troops killed over a WMD mistake would be no big deal, esp as long as I’m out of it and getting my corporate directors’ and speaking fees) and Myers (hey, how’s my girl Julie doing with that little immigration problem?) etc.

I stil find it interesting that while Powell was getting steamrolled, Schwarzkopf called it all in Jan 2003, including the fact that Rumsfeld would be a disaster.

Schwarzkopf called it all in Jan 2003, including the fact that Rumsfeld would be a disaster.

could you give me a link showing the critisism please, would love to have that so people won’t say these critisisms are in hindsite

Pach, can you update your post to the Roots Project to include your contact info, to make it easier to find please? I have this saved for now:

Pachacutec says:
April 12th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
To Join FDLers in the Roots Project

1. Put your home state (nothing else!) in the subject line of an email to pachacutec01 at gmail dot com

2. include your commenting name or dkos user name in the body of your email

3. be patient while I append you to an existing group or wait for enough people to form a new state group.
By doing this, you can connect with FDLers in your state for local action, lobbying, and perhaps for visits to your congresscritters’ offices.
……………………………………..
Please email Pach if you haven’t done so already. Thanks! (For me, we’re looking for more from Michigan, come on Great Lake Staters)

Clearly Bush is barking mad. I don’t believe there is anything he would hesitate to do. So that leaves us with three possibilities to avert nuclear war: The Senate intervenes and wrests control from Bush; Military commanders refuse to obey orders; the rank and file rise up, pitchforks in hand if necessary, and puts a stop to chimpy’s lunacy. Hmm…I think it’s going to be up to us, people.
Look, we have some steadfast Senators who will go the length to stop Bush - Leahy, Feingold, Boxer. But for every Feingold there are two Lindsey Grahams. Make that five. There are top ranking military who will not follow chimpy but it’s clear that there’s no shortage of hate filled bigots who will be glad for the opportunity to strike a blow for white christian supremacy.

So I think we really are screwed. Considering that we are that small segment of public who are paying any attention to this, emailing Senators and writing letters. Pachacutec is right, we must do that much, at least. But we’re going to have to do more. And I think what we might need to realize is that at this point, we have very little to lose. Chimp is going to bring everything crashing down around us, and we need to stop him.

I for one am seriously freaked out.

Prof. Foland,

Want to join up with the rest of us FDLers on Sat? With you we are now up to 5. If you aren’t on the roots list or want to follow-up let me know.
Love the Franken-like outline of truth, lies,weasels, etc. on your blog. Very helpful.

Sometimes I think Plame was outed to alert nuclear buyers that she was undercover.

Prof Foland - I know I never emailed; a bit wary of that - disclosing my non-Superhero identity and all that. But I checked out your site, and if you post your email again I will email you. Actually, I attended one of the graduate schools at your university.

On topic - Why not simply take the Neonuts at face value: if they say nukes are an option, then nukes really are an option. As much as any of use would like to believe it is only a negotiating ploy b/c it seems so inarguably insane (”not even they are that crazy”), the fact of the matter is that it is they are irrational, and therefor we should expect irrational policies from them - even when they telegraph it.

Is, not seemingly is, inarguably so insane. Don’t want to leave any wiggle room there.

Community service message:

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Now we need to bring our message to the voters. In order to win, we need to build a grassroots army to reach out to millions of Americans — one voter at a time — and persuade them to vote Democratic. The second session of the Night School is designed to do just that — teach you the skills to recruit more volunteers and expand our grassroots network. Sign up today:

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The more people we have working for change, the better our chances for success. During the series, you’ll learn how to work within your social network to get your family, friends, neighbors and co-workers involved in the fight to take our country back. The live online training and conference call will begin at 8:30pm Eastern Time, tomorrow, Tuesday, April 18. Please RSVP now.”

(This is free, just sign up. They have downloadable things from their first class up too)

What good fascist nation doesn’t have happy, shiny children singing songs glorifying the leader, the government and the great work they do?

The darkness has come.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/17/katrina-song/

-GSD

A Red Herring!!!

The impetus of this movement has to be to stop war on Iran, rather than focusing on nuclear weapons.
It is a standard tactic in this administration to float an extreme position that distracts the opposition. They take it back, and the debate has moved so far that a conventional war doesn’t seem so bad after all. And after the Iran retaliation, hitting them with nukes would be “more justifiable”, anyway.

The focus needs to be on no Iran war, please. Moveon missed this point big time — let’s not repeat the mistake.

new thread up top

EPU– andyfoland at hotmail

It was nothing super-important (just figured you missed it) a comment re: your comment about the scientists in Rhodes’ book. May not be worth blowing your cover for :)

Get to know Iran before it’s too late

Paracutec: Why is it, do you think, that a need excists to petition the democratic party on a matter of war?

me to me 55
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2705275.stm
Jan, 29, 32003
“…called for United Nations weapons inspectors to be given more time to assess whether Iraq had any illegal weapons.
“I think it is very important for us to wait and see what the inspectors come up with, and hopefully they come up with something conclusive,” he said in an interview with the Washington Post. “
‘Nervous’ about Rumsfeld
. . .
General Schwarzkopf praised his former comrade-in-arms, US Secretary of State Colin Powell, but said he was “somewhat nervous” about comments made by the Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld.
“When he makes his comments, it appears that he disregards the Army,” he was quoted as saying.
“He gives the perception when he’s on TV that he is the guy driving the train and everybody else better fall in line behind him - or else.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....ge=printer
The general who commanded U.S. forces in the 1991 Gulf War says he hasn’t seen enough evidence to convince him that his old comrades Dick Cheney, Colin Powell and Paul Wolfowitz are correct in moving toward a new war now. He thinks U.N. inspections are still the proper course to follow. He’s worried about the cockiness of the U.S. war plan, and even more by the potential human and financial costs of occupying Iraq.
And don’t get him started on Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
. . .
“Candidly, I have gotten somewhat nervous at some of the pronouncements Rumsfeld has made,” says Schwarzkopf.
. . . Rumsfeld’s frequent television appearances since Sept. 11, 2001. “He almost sometimes seems to be enjoying it.” That, Schwarzkopf admonishes, is a sensation to be avoided when engaged in war.
. . .
Some at the top of the Army see Rumsfeld and those around him as overly enamored of air power and high technology and insufficiently attentive to the brutal difficulties of ground combat. Schwarzkopf’s comments reflect Pentagon scuttlebutt that Rumsfeld and his aides have brushed aside some of the Army’s concerns.
“The Rumsfeld thing . . . that’s what comes up,” when he calls old Army friends in the Pentagon, he says.
. . .
That dismissive posture bothers Schwarzkopf because he thinks Rumsfeld and the people around him lack the background to make sound military judgments by themselves. He prefers the way Cheney operated during the Gulf War. ” . . .
Rumsfeld, by contrast, worries him. “It’s scary, okay?” he says. “Let’s face it: There are guys at the Pentagon who have been involved in operational planning for their entire lives, okay? . . . And for this wisdom, acquired during many operations, wars, schools, for that just to be ignored, and in its place have somebody who doesn’t have any of that training, is of concern.”
As a result, Schwarzkopf is skeptical that an invasion of Iraq would be as fast and simple as some seem to think. “I have picked up vibes that . . . you’re going to have this massive strike with massed weaponry, and basically that’s going to be it, and we just clean up the battlefield after that,” he says. But, he adds, he is more comfortable now with what he hears about the war plan than he was several months ago, when there was talk of an assault built around air power and a few thousand Special Operations troops.
He expresses even more concern about the task the U.S. military might face after a victory. “What is postwar Iraq going to look like, with the Kurds and the Sunnis and the Shiites? That’s a huge question, to my mind. It really should be part of the overall campaign plan.”
. . .
The administration may be discussing the issue behind closed doors, Schwarzkopf says, but he thinks it hasn’t sufficiently explained its thinking to the world, especially its assessment of the time, people and money needed. “I would hope that we have in place the adequate resources to become an army of occupation,” he warns, “because you’re going to walk into chaos.”

I am in.

I also have a few ideas to go with this one. Go to my website at http://junerevolution.blogspot.com/ to find out more.

I think we need several strategies to get out of this mess.

Email me if you like. xoites@gmail.com

So how’s it goin for GW Clusterfuck?

Not so well.

Here are his key measures of failure:

Oil hit $70.38 today

His JAR according to Gallup ( a gooper friendly outfit) 36%

30 year fixed mortgage rate– 6.61%

2378 american troops dead in Iraq.

It’s all goin in the wrong direction for GW Clusterfuck.

Well- here’s a little something to add to everyones’ dislike(Hatred?) of the chimp!
What’s this 700 ton bomb test in Nevada? That is alot explosives-no?
I have some ideas but i would first love to see some others respond.
billjpa

I think it is a good thing you are trying to do but nothing, absolutely nothing, has or will stop George Bush. I am sick and tried of writing letters, signing petitions and voicing opinions. I will save my energy and use my vote in November to register my dissatisfaction.

No more blood for oil. Alternative energies are the solution.

If we citizens can’t stop this Bushit administration from spinning out of control and acting like crazy demagogues, then we get what we deserve for allowing it to go on after so much exposure to their crimes.

via pach i met moe99 and we’re meeting @ 1 on wed. in seattle to visit the sens. write pach if you want to join us.

I sent off my email to Pach.

The kids say I’m getting rowdy in my old age. I say I’m getting rowdy so they can have an old age.

The military simply won’t allow it to happen. They’re not that nuts.

Gen. Boykin IS nuts.

May We Suggest We All Carry a

… BROOM

http://www.CleanSweepCampaign.com

A Visable Sige that WE R All Together

… In Any State

It’s Also Good 4 the Cameras 2 Zooooom in on

UNITE, 2 SWEEP CLEAN U.S.A. GOVERNMENT

Thank U, RogerART.com

NOW LET”S GO JAIL the BUSH GANGSTERS !

Yup, the Seattle Spring Fling w/ the Senators will be at 1pm in downtown Seattle. Be there or be square.

Someone better call Harry Ried and John Ensign about the Nuke test which will be in Nevada. I am sure they know already but they better do something. If we ever needed a backbone in the democratic party it is NOW!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01735.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01916.html

Speaking to our reps is a good idea. But real change will not happen until people take the pain to where it matters: the corporate overlords. A massive boycott of fortune 500 companies and we would see real change and see it fast, of that i have no doubt at all

For those who are stating that they believe BushCo will not actually use nukes, I can only say that I wish it were true.

I’m convinced they have always intended to follow up the Iraq invasion with a strike against Iran, and detailed that in my article “Danse Macabre — And The Band Played On.”

If you want to read it, you can find it here:

DailyKos: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/10/19710/7103

ePluribus Media: http://scoop.epluribusmedia.or.....19165/6759

Booman Tribune: http://www.boomantribune.com/s.....91916/6498

TPMCafe: http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/28569

I urge folks to wholeheartedly support this group’s effort to help stop the march to war in Iran. It’s based entirely on fearmongering to support a (no longer completely) hidden agenda. Let’s not be duped again.

Power to the people!

Godspeed, my friends.

http://tinyurl.com/a6erq

Keeping up wiht high volume is not a problem. Google having my account on hold a bit is, due to high activity level.

I have local state managers helping me with invitations to existing groups, but I have new groups to create. I’m getting help with that, too.

Please be patient and keep the emails coming.

Pach

I live outside of Boston and can go to Fan Hall on Saturday. Can someone give me the details?

#73

The “bomb” is slurry explosive, same as used in blowing up the Fed bldg in OK. How do you deliver a 700# “bomb”? Is it an airplane?

Go to Hell you America-Hating skunks! You are not concerned for the peole of Iran. You think that they should live under a madman who is trying to create nukes so he can go after our only ally in the Middle East and create a sanctuary for the same scum that killed innocent people on 9/11. You are stupid and idiotic and I hope that you become more and more irrelevant!